How does Jake Boss help his players develop the invaluable skill of empathy?
Unfortunately, most people equate effective coaching with technical knowledge. We assume that coaches that played at the highest level are the best coaches. Nothing could be further from the truth. Coaching is an art form. The best coaches have the ability to communicate honestly and deliver instruction that sticks.
My guest, Jake Boss, is the head baseball coach at my alma mater Michigan State University. Like me, Jake wanted to play baseball for the Spartans, but was unable too. However, today he coaches at the highest level of collegiate baseball because of his ability to teach the game and lead young men.
In this bonus remix episode, Coach Boss discusses the complex subject of empathy. In my view, the best coaches help their young players put themselves in others’ shoes - their coaches, their teammates, their parents. Coaching in any sport is about preparing young athletes for what’s next in life, not just wins and losses.
So, what was your biggest takeaway from my conversation with Jake Boss?
For me, it’s that teaching empathy for others is a staple of good coaching. Athletes may not always like their coaches or the things that they do. However, being able to appreciate WHY coaches do what they do is critical to forging a trusting and constructive relationship between coach and player.
My suggestion to young athletes is simply to keep an open mind. Keeping an open mind is fully within one’s control. You may not like the things that others say or do, but keeping an open mind will give you the opportunity to learn something new that will make you a better athlete and more importantly, a better person.
I want to thank Jake for his kind generosity and the wisdom he shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
To learn more about how mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than AGAINST you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back in two weeks ready to get better!
[00:00:03] PODCAST INTRO: Welcome to “The Freshman Foundation” podcast. Helping you make the jump from High School athletics to the collegiate level and beyond with your host, Michael Huber.
[00:00:20] Mike: Hey everyone, I'm Mike Huber founder and CEO of “The Freshman Foundation”. Welcome to The Freshman Foundation podcast. A podcast specifically geared to understanding the transition from high school to college athletics. My guest today is Jake Boss, head baseball coach at my dear alma mater, Michigan State University. Coach Boss has compiled 342 wins over 11 seasons in East Lansing, which represent the most wins over a 12 year span in program history. Coach Boss is responsible for 5 of the 10 winning seasons in Michigan State baseball history. Please welcome Coach, Jake Boss, to the podcast. Coach, how are you today?
[00:00:54] Jake Boss: I'm doing great, Mike. Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:57] Mike: Thanks for coming on. And it's good to see you too. So how are things in, East Lansing or there about today?
[00:01:03] Jake Boss: Well, things are good. The sun is shining. It's about 30 degrees. And it's been a kind of a mild offseason so far. So it's finals week here at Michigan State. So all of our guys we're finishing up this week, and then Christmas break starts. And we'll be out of here before it back again in January.
[00:01:19] Mike: Excellent. Yeah, hopefully things start to get back to normal and 2021, I know everybody's looking forward to a fresh start. So maybe just to start, can you talk about the impact that COVID and the current situation is had on the baseball program there, and Michigan State?
[00:01:34] Jake Boss: Yeah, well, obviously, Mike, it's been a crazy year, not only for us, but obviously for everybody. And I go back to March 11, we were nine and six at the time and playing, playing pretty good baseball. And we were getting ready to get on a bus to go down to Terre Haute, Indiana for the weekend to play Indiana State and a nonconference series and got the call that the series, first of all was canceled. And then very shortly within about an hour, the rest of the season was canceled. And that was one of the tougher meetings that I've had to lead as a coach, because we didn't have any other information other than that, and didn't know at the time that our seniors will get the year back eligibility wise, and all of that. So thankfully we took it, the message to our guys was basically control what you can control and we can only control how we react to it. And there's got to be some type of good eventually that'll come out of this, and so our guys really did a nice job. I think, first of all, in the classroom, we finished with the highest grade point average that we've ever had here finish up a semester to like, that is pretty impressive, in my opinion, dealing with that type of adversity and having to switch to online classes and things like that. I mean, they really did a great job. And then even into the summer, we had a lot of guys that were able to get out and play summer ball in some shape or form really had a good fall practice season with our guys, we got about six weeks in and really got a lot accomplished in the fall before we basically sent everybody home and thanksgiving for the holidays. And they're finishing up there. They finished up the last couple weeks online and that finals, again this week online, but it was really good to see those guys again, in person in August. You know, I mean, you can do as many zoom meetings as you want, but it's just not the same. And it was really I mean, to be honest with you, it's kind of emotional I think, for everybody just to be able to get back get on the field, together as a group. And I think that's kind of a strong program, you can talk about wins and losses all you want. But when guys are excited to see each other be around each other and things like that, I think you programs in a pretty good place.
[00:03:35] Mike: For sure, and that's great. I mean, I think that one of those, that message of controlling the controllable’s is so huge, whether it's in a kind of an odd situation like this, but in anything related to sport. And especially in baseball, there's so much this out of our control, and there's so many things that happen around us to be able to keep the emphasis on what we can do to make things better, and what we can learn from the situations always, at least in my view a positive thing. But since we're talking about this high school to college transition, can you talk specifically about the effect you think this fall, the kind of situation the fall season has had on your freshmen?
[00:04:07] Jake Boss: Yeah. Well, I mean, there were some concerns, I think, for the, for the freshmen coming in, especially with the seniors coming back, the concern was, well, you know, what's going to happen to me with my spot, and all of that, and I understand that everybody wants to play right away, but at the same time, I think it really a is helped our ball club because I think that the competition can be very, very healthy. Again, I think it goes back to what we just said, control what you can control. You know, as a freshman, I think you're used to being the best guy on your team, basically, probably most the majority of your life and then you get to college, and you're playing with a bunch of guys that are in the same spot as you and only nine of them can play. And so you know, there are guys that this creates a lot of competition and I think when you handle that competition the right way, it makes you better, it makes the team better. I think there's a lot of growth that comes from that. And I think it can be difficult for freshmen early on, I mean, your, your head spin in those first couple of weeks, because not only are you 18 years old, playing against guys that are 22, and even 23 years old, sometimes, but everything is just faster, it's the breaking balls are tighter, the game moves faster. And, you know, it's one of those things where you better catch up quicker, you're going to get left behind, and most guys do a nice job with that transition, some guys struggle with it. And I think the guys who struggle with it, we really try to take try to help them slow things down a little bit, understand that they've got a long career, it's a four year career, and there's, there's really plenty of time, at the same time, there are things you can do to there that you're going to need to do to get to get caught up here, and so understanding that a team of 35 guys, again, can only have nine on the field is a different concept for those guys coming in. And you really, really need to work you need to put in that time and that effort, which some guys may not have necessarily had to do before, because they've just been able to rely on their talent. And it was just amplified, I think this year, going into the fall with last year, seniors coming back for the next year. So great opportunity to learn though, again, great opportunity to control their game. And the quicker they understand that they can, again, they control what they control, you can't control what that fifth year seniors doing and you're certainly not going to cheer against them, because we all want the same thing. We all want the same goal. And this isn't pro baseball. And so this is probably the last team that our guys are going to play on, whether they go play pro ball or not, is when you get to play in the pro ball. We have a bunch of guys that come back every offseason to work out and they say, it's just so much different, because you're in it for yourself at that point, you're trying to move up to the next level. And if the guy who's playing that day ahead of you goes over for you know, in the back of your mind, you're kind of happy about that, because that could open a door for you. So the focus is about Michigan State baseball, and you know, what you can do and your role to help us be better.
[00:06:58] Mike: I mean, there's a lot there that can kind of go with but I think we're going to talk a lot about that transition from high school to college, and that's kind of the purpose of this. But I want to ask you, because I think I said this to you at some point while we were kind of talking about setting this up is, I'm just as an alum, and as a baseball guide, and played baseball at Michigan State and tried to walk on, but I've always played baseball, I've always coached baseball, it's very nice for me to see that the program, the baseball program at Michigan State is a priority that you've created a winning culture that things are really kind of building, and you've taken a lot of pride in that. Can you just talk about some of the things that you've tried to instill in the players in the program there that have sort of led to the success that you've had?
[00:07:41] Jake Boss: Yeah, Mike, when we first got here, 13 years ago now, I think it is, which is hard to believe, time goes fast. But when we first got here, we just you know, I remember meeting with our staff before the players got back to campus and doing the research that we had done and talking to the people that we have talked to, I think it was very apparent to us that we just needed to love our guys a little bit, we needed to make sure that they understood that we're here for them. And really, every cliche applies, I mean, there's a million of them, but they're cliches for a reason. Our director of admissions at the time, who's a baseball alum, we hadn't come into me with a recruit and he told a story. Ironically, I guess about Archimedes a famous or off of a quote from Archimedes, who's a famous Greek mathematician, I guess, and Archimedes quote was give me a place to stand and I can move the world and we really kind of took that and kind of adopted that stole it for lack of a better term to what kind of what our philosophy was when we first got here we just felt like we needed to give our guys a chance, a place to stand and we wanted to give them ownership of the program. We wanted our leaders to take ownership of the program and again our basketball coaches the best there is in my opinion and you know, coaches always says a player coach team is going to be better than a coach team and so we tried to you know, again give our older guys and our leaders a lot of ownership and a lot of responsibility and the one thing where we really thought it started to happen here you know, we had a good first year but ironically of all places we noticed it in the weight room, I think in prior years there was a lot of baby complaining about the weight room of you know some of the workouts they were doing and you know guys had different ideas about what to do and you know, this isn't good for my body or this is good for my body and things like that, you know, I just told our leaders this you need to fix this you need to we need a culture where we're going to get in we're gonna work hard, you may not if you don't agree with it, you need to start asking some questions and understand why the people that are smarter than you are putting these workouts together and so communicate and things like that and you know, we saw a switch fairly quickly and the culture really kind of started there in the weight room that okay, we understand what hard work is now we understand that people are here to help us and when that by and started to happen with the older guys that carried over into the next year and you know on the field We had kind of a frustrating year, the next year wasn't great, but it was still building. And then in year three, we were able to win a championship. And the first one, the 70s, and it was all part of that culture that started really that first year, and I think started in the weight room during fall baseball, and, you know, so again, it was just part of trying to create that culture of, we're here for you, you know, we want to give you a place to stand so that, you have the opportunity to feel like you can rule the world. And then at that point, you know, we really tried to stress, you know, three different, I guess, pillars to our program, and I was fortunate to sit in a workshop with young business leaders in the capitol area here in Michigan, in the Lansing area. And the thing that kept coming back from business leaders from across the city was discipline, passion, and detail. And those were the three things that I kept hearing from, unsolicited from all these different people. And so we kind of brought that back and put that into our program as well. And if we can do if we can have great discipline, off the field, with our work habits, with our study habits with our how we treat our body with our sleep, you know, how what we do on the weekends, we have great discipline, if we play the game with great passion, and we find out, you know, off the field, what we're passionate about in the classroom, you know, we take those two passions and really put all of our energy and efforts toward those things that are that we're passionate about. And then if we play the game with great detail, if we do the little things correctly, we're gonna win a lot of ballgames. And, you know, though, that discipline, passion and detail, I think that those are things that guys can take beyond Michigan State into their careers into their lives as husbands and fathers, and really whatever they do. And so again, it's just another way for us, I think, to try to read into these guys a little bit.
[00:11:46] Mike: I love that. I mean, I think that's really important that you have leaders within the program at the player level that can carry that message, because if you’re more experienced players are not heeding that message, if they're not doing what you're asking them to do, then how could the younger players to just find an example for them to follow, and I think that that's critical. I'm curious though, like, you know, since that time, 12, 10 years ago, since you kind of first came in, have you seen an evolution in the high school players coming into the program in terms of weight training? And because I mean, obviously, the game has become more sophisticated, early specialization training, those things kids are getting more coaching and instruction earlier, I think now, have you seen an evolution in the freshmen and coming into the program?
[00:12:29] Jake Boss: Yeah, I think so. I think the freshmen are a little bit more aware, especially the metrics. And so I think that can be good, I also think that can be bad. We had a young man a number of years ago that, you know, as an example, we usually run the 60 yard dash at some point in the fall, and he ran okay, it was a sub 760 yard dash, but the last time he ran it in the summer, or whatever workout he was adding was like a six, six, and he just couldn't understand why he didn't run a six, six. And his question to me, well, what was that laser time? Do we laser timing was just off the stopwatch, and I kind of looked at him the same way. He just looked at me and so but what difference does it make? This is what the watch says, this is what the 20 other watches that are around here on Scout, they all say the same thing, this is what the 60 time is. So I think there's got to be a fine line of awareness between okay, what are the metrics that everybody's teaching in the offseason, and things like that, and I understand a lot of those bells and whistles are pretty important to a lot of people. I also think, I can appreciate the guides that are that are running the indoor facilities, and wanting to stay on top of the technology and present the newest and latest and glitziest maybe a way to teach the game. But at the same time, from my perspective, you have to be able to go out and play and that speed is great. And if you have a bat speed of 100 miles an hour, that's great, that bat speed at 100 miles an hour doesn't mean a whole lot if you can't make contact with the baseball, you know, so I think there's a fine line between the two. And certainly, again, our freshmen are coming in probably playing being more experienced. I mean, these kids are playing all over the country you know, now and playing against, you know, kids from, you know, all four corners of the continent, really to be honest with you. And so that experience I think is great. Again, a lot of the metrics, I think they're more knowledgeable probably, more maybe self-aware, or they feel like they're maybe they're more self-aware than then then maybe 10 years ago, at the same time, the game hasn't changed for all the metrics and all the things that are evolving and developing and things like that, at its core, the game remains the same. And you still got to be able to get them out and get them over and get them in type of thing. And so again, I think trying to find that balance of taking the skill and making it playable is a challenge in today's game, I think.
[00:14:49] Mike: Yeah, I was watching a short clip before we came on of an interview you did a few years ago, I guess but you talked about the things that you expect playing hard, being proactive, right in terms of the types of recruits that you want to bring in kids who are kind of reaching out to you, they're giving you good information. They're being aggressive in the process. They're always playing hard, because you never know when someone's watching. Like, all those things resonate with me like, is that kind of still the philosophy or is that your philosophy as a program in terms of the case, the types of kids that you're looking for at the high school level to bring in?
[00:15:21] Jake Boss: So for sure, I think those guys that play the game, the right way, all the time, are the guys that I don't have to be concerned about off the field either, I think I can trust those guys to get their work done academically. And don't get me wrong, I'm not asking every guy to be a 4.0 student, if you're a 2.5, and you've busted your tail, and you've done everything that you possibly can, and worked extremely hard, and you get a two five grade point average, I'm just as happy with that with a guy that works that hard and gets a four point now the problem I'm going to have is if you're a 4.0 student, and you don't work very hard, and you get a three point, now I got a problem, because you're not getting the best out of your ability. And so those guys that play the game the right way, all the time, we'll go compete with those guys, you know, anytime, anywhere, I think it does, it speaks to the discipline, passion and detail that we talked to our guys about all the time. I think, playing hard, regardless of the score, regardless of the outcome, you know, those guys that run hard from home to first, you know, one hopper to the third baseman, you know, that's a laser and they're thrown out by 30 feet, those guys that run hard through the bag, I think that's important, that means a lot guys that want to be here at Michigan State, I think it just means a little bit more to him to put that green and white jersey, because I was one of those guys, I wanted to play here, I grew up in the area, I had to give him my left arm to play at Michigan State just wasn't good enough. And that's part of it too, I found a place to play and had a good career. And fortunately, I'm able to live out a dream right now, but you know, you have to be able to, I think we try to take that type of, I guess, for lack of a better term blue collar mentality within our athletic department as well. I mean, you see our football team, do it with Coach Dantonio, now coach Tucker, and our basketball team, that's been a staple of what they do for years and years and years. And so those are two pretty good programs, I think to learn from and so we'd be remiss if we didn't try to feel a little bit of that philosophy and put it into our own program.
[00:17:11] Mike: For sure. I mean, I think I made that comment to you before, you know that just watching from our as a fan, as an alum, the emphasis on player development, recruiting is great, getting athletes, five star four or five star athletes is great. But you can still get a kid as a two or three star athlete and develop them over time. And as a late bloomer maybe they come out, and they become just as good of a player as you would have brought in a five, four or five star level from a recruiting standpoint. So the ability to bring in people who are motivated to get better, I think is critical. And so I was kind of looking, I was made a note, when you were talking a little bit before about those players coming in, I think one of the things that I think about when I think about the transition from high school to college is the ability to communicate with a coach, the ability to ask questions, like you said, and the ability to ask for help specifically. Because when you're a big fish in a small pond, or you're a superstar High School, and then you come in to college, and you're just like everybody else, like what's your willingness to be able to have a conversation with somebody and honest conversation to figure out what you can do better? I mean, can you comment on that in terms of kids coming in? Like, where do you see their ability to kind of talk to you, talk to the staff, ask for help want to get better, versus may be kind of shutting down a little bit when things aren't going their way?
[00:18:27] Jake Boss: Well, I think my assistants, first of all, do a tremendous job in the recruiting process, and I think, not only have they been able to identify guys that, you know, maybe having high upside and things like devil, they've been able to identify guys that have that type of character, I think that we feel I can make our program better. And so with that not everybody, obviously, but I think the majority of those guys are a confidence in their ability, first of all, but be you know, also confident, as a young man and a young adult, having a conversation with a coach. And I think the majority of those guys come in and are able to be receptive to, what we're telling them, you know, some guys will fight it, because, again, they've had a lot of success. And why should I change if I've been successful my whole life, but the guys that even the guys that do fight it, I think, can back that up a little bit and have a conversation. And it doesn't mean that they're right, or doesn't mean I'm necessarily right, because at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, but the more the sooner they communicate, not only with me, but with my assistants and with somebody else, I think it's all you know, one of their teammates, maybe even, I think the sooner that they're going to be able to handle different situations the right way. And really, what we try to tell them is, listen, we're trying to prepare you for whatever's next and hopefully pro ball is next. And when you get to pro ball, now, I didn't play pro ball. So I'm going off of what I've been told by the players that I've coached, but what I've been told by those guys when you get to pro ball You know, you better take some ownership of your own game. Because if you don't, and you wait for somebody else to come in and try to fix something, or pull you aside or whatever, you're gonna get left behind, and so we're trying to get those guys to take ownership in their own game here first by communicating, and then even those guys aren't going to go out and play pro ball, you know, you're going to need to get a job someday, somebody from a big company is not going to come knocking on your door and say, Hey, come work for me, it doesn't work that way. You know, you got to go out and pursue what you're passionate about, and pursue that until you get it, it may take some time sometimes. So that communication piece is obviously is huge. And it starts in the recruiting process, it starts with that first telephone call, it starts on the visit, it starts with that first handshake, as cliche again, as that is, it means a lot, you know, with a kid that give you a good firm handshake, and look you in the eye and have a good conversation, versus the kid that kind of gives you the limp wristed handshake and has a hard time looking in the eye when you talk to him that. That speaks a lot to confidence and speaks a lot to maturity and those are the guys that we want moving forward.
[00:21:06] Mike: I mean, I guess that I mean, that makes sense to me. When I hear you talk about this, like, I'm always nodding my head, because I tend to agree that matters. That ability to have a conversation to look you in the eye, shake your head. These are basic things, cliche things, but they do matter. So I'm always curious, is that kind of a follow on there. So tell me about your experience with parents these days. Because that's obviously a topic of conversation out there in terms of expecting a young man to take ownership of the recruiting process, and of their performance and their school and all those things. And then parents who I'm a parent, my kids are a little bit younger, but seeing other parents who tend to be a little bit more hands on than they were 25 years ago, or 30 years ago, when I was a teenager?
[00:21:48] Jake Boss: Yeah. Well, we've asked our parents that my job is not to be the parent with your when your son's here on campus. Now, my job is maybe to be representation of the parents, and I'm gonna back you as parent, I'm gonna back you up the way that you've raised your son. And as a coach, I would expect the same in reverse from our parents, I don't need you to be the coach your son to Michigan State for me and my staff to coach him, let us coach and promise that what we're doing is in the best interest of the program first, and then your son second. And Mike, again, I'm a parent, as well. And I've got three kids of my own, two of which are playing intercollegiate athletics at Division-Three schools. I don't know, the first thing about volleyball, my daughter plays volleyball, and softball, I don't know, the first thing about volleyball, but I can tell you, when my daughter is not on the court, I want to know why she's not on the court and that can be difficult sometimes. And the one thing that that this job has really taught me is I need to trust that that coach is doing what's in the best interest of that team first, and my daughter is having a great experience, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's not easy to watch your kid not play, and we've had some tough conversations where well, if you're not playing, and you feel like you shouldn't be, then (a) you need to go in and have a conversation, but (b) maybe you need to practice better. I mean, she works hard. But maybe there's some things that in practice, she needs to do better, and just for lack of better, for lack of a better term, I guess, you just need to go and play better, and help your team in whatever way you can. And so I get that, as a parent, I get it, but now probably more than ever, but at the same time again, I'll be you know, our phone lines are always open, our doors are always open, the lines of communication are always open and I just asked our parents, if there are any problems, questions, concerns that you have, feel free to call me. And I really kind of took that from coaches though, to be quite honest with you, we had a conversation, maybe after my second year here, where I was kind of complaining to him about some parents that I thought were over involved or whatever. And my kids were younger at the time, and he stopped me dead in my tracks. And he says, you gotta understand where they're coming from and I had never taken that into consideration at all. And now, as an older parent, it's easier for me to do that. But when I didn't have kids that old, I didn't really want to see where they were coming from. And so things like that have really helped me, I think, and I think it's helped our team as well. It helps keep the lines of communication open, and our players know, they're always going to get an honest answer out of me. Now, they may not like that answer, I'm certainly not going to rub their nose in it and be degrading or demeaning to them. But at the same time, they need to hear the truth. And our parents are the same way. And so we strive to deal with honest, open communication like that, and most people embrace it, some don't. But again, that goes back to control what you can control. I can't control what anybody else is thinking about the decisions that I make for our team. I need to do what's best for our team and first, and that's the priority.
[00:24:43] Mike: Yeah, a lot of the kids that I work with, whether it's individually or on staff is a mental performance coach. One thing I try to talk to them about a lot is empathy. Put yourself in coach's shoes. You've got nine spots and baseball and 25 guys on the roster. Well do the math like, you can't play 25 guys, you can only play a certain number of guys, there's reason why. Now, if you don't like that you're not playing to your point, what can you control your effort on the field? Maybe you could do something differently work harder, or you can go to coach and say, Hey, like, what's going on? Why aren't I playing? It's not personal. They're not doing it to you personally. You know, I have a, I worked with a coach who's a head coach at high school here in New Jersey. And he always says to me goes, the kids that I never put on the field are the kids, I probably like the best. So if I don't play you, it's not because I don't like you. It's because I've got to make a decision. And I think a lot of kids just revert back to oh, there's something wrong with me. He doesn't like me, and that's just not it. I think that's a hard job to be a coach, and to have to make those tough decisions for a program where you have to have everybody's interests at heart.
[00:25:47] Jake Boss: Well, empathy is really tough, Mike. I mean, there is no question about that, especially in the age of immediate gratification and immediate satisfaction. And you look at your cell phone, you look at social media, you look at everything that we get this is just such immediate feedback, it's all geared toward me. I mean, I'm on my cell phone, because this is what I want to see. And this is what social media, I want to post this because these are, I want to get this amount of likes for me and things like that. And so, so difficult, and I'm guilty of it myself, I think we all are, you know, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. And we address that immediately in our program. When something happens here, a team doesn't play well strikes out, whatever, I think having a little empathy for him. And the older guys, especially taking the young kid underneath his wing and saying, listen, this is what happened, this is why it happened. This is some of the changes you need to make. Because let's not forget, you as a senior, you were a freshman wants to, so you know what that guy's going through. So it's a little bit easier, maybe for him to put himself into his shoes into that freshmen shoes. It's not their job. It's not necessarily it's a tough ask for the player to put themselves in the coach's shoes. But that's something that we challenged him to do, we have our guys evaluate the entire team at the end of the fall. It's done anonymously, Jimmy doesn't know who Billy voted for and vice versa. But at the same time, I want them to start thinking from my perspective, and okay, this is what these are the guys that should play. Alright, and be ready to be able to justify why, okay, you think you should be playing over him? Well, why? What leads you to believe that just because you want to play well, that that doesn't work that way, you know, let's they take a look at it objectively. And so just to get them to start thinking a little bit differently, that's a tough thing. But I think the sooner they can realize that I think the better off they'll be as people and the better off our program will be as a whole.
[00:27:39] Mike: Right. And all you can do is to coach is deliver the message and demonstrate the behavior that you want them to exhibit. And if a kid doesn't buy into it right away, like, what are you going to do about that? You can't make them change, obviously, there are things you could do to maybe kind of incentivize or punish behavior at the end of the day. But if they don't want to change, and they don't want to put themselves in a better position to succeed, like, you can't make them do it.
[00:28:03] Jake Boss: Well, yeah. And at that point, again they're at a crossroads. I think at that point, because the ultimate motivator is playing time, you can think the coach likes you, you can think the coach doesn't like you. But you know that opinion, I've never met a coach that is going to put a group of nine guys out there that he doesn't think are the nine guys that are going to help him win that day, the player can always say, well, coach doesn't like me and that's why I'm not playing, I don't necessarily buy into that, because each coach wants to win, that's part of it's not the reason you do it. I don't think but when you compete, if you're a competitor, you want to go out and win that game. And I'm going to put the guys out there that I think are going to help us win that game. And so again, it goes back to empathy, you know, and putting yourself in somebody else's shoes, for sure. And again, you at that point you have a decision to make. But that's where communication becomes so important. If you don't like it, you need to go communicate, and the doors always open. And we have guys in here in the office here all the time. And I know they feel a lot better after they leave because now it's all out there on the open, and we've kind of given them the roadmap, this is what you need to do to get onto the field. If you're not happy with where you're at, this is the roadmap to do it. Now the balls in your court.
[00:29:11] Mike: Yeah, I totally agree with that. I also think one of the things I'll say to kids sometimes is listen, coach's job is to develop young men, but it's also to win, which means if I don't win, that I don't keep my job, which means I can't feed my family. Like dude, is that why people coach? I don't think so. Like I don't do what I do for the money. I do. Because I love to help people. But at the same time, like, if I can't win if I'm in your shoes, and I can't win, eventually I'm going to lose my job. I mean, it's a sad state of affairs, but that's the way it works. And so a kid needs to hear that even if they can't appreciate it right now, like that's just the way the world is. And if they don't understand that, or at least they're not aware of it, then then they're kind of they're doing the coach a disservice, at least that's my opinion.
[00:29:53] Jake Boss: There's no question like, I have to win otherwise, I'm not gonna you know, I can't go on 56 and expect to keep my job at the same time, I think our guys know that it's not a win at all cost type of thing. I mean, there are certain expectations for our program. And if those aren't bad, I don't care who you are, there's going to be some consequences and repercussions. And so you can't go out and handle yourself like a knucklehead and expect to be in the lineup the next day, you know, if you when you do things that embarrassed the program, again, there are standards that we have for our program, I think that helps our guys understand that it is a privilege to play at this level play at any level, I think is a privilege. And you have a responsibility to handle yourself a certain way, because you need to understand who you represent. And we talked about that to our guys all the time, you may think you represent Michigan State baseball program, and you do, but think about who else you represent, you represent our athletic director, or you represent our entire department, you represent the president of our university and the 50, some 1000 students that go to Michigan State University, you represent me, personally, and my family, and my assistants and their families, you represent your family, your high school coach and his family, you represent your entire high school, and so there's a lot of people that you represent. And so I think, again, when they finally, most guys have a pretty good understanding of that when they get here, the ones that don't, it's my job to educate.
[00:31:16] Mike: I want to go back to something you mentioned a little while ago, which is social media. I'm sure that it plays a big role in the recruiting process in terms of kids wanting to get that acknowledgement, the gratification of getting offers or kind of talking about, kind of the interest that they have. And then certainly as a coach, when you have players in the program about what they're posting on social media. Can you talk about some of the challenges you see with that, or maybe some of the good things, you see that come out of it?
[00:31:45] Jake Boss: Yeah, I think there are both Mike for sure. I think there's a lot of good that can come out of it. I think when you're proud of something, when you're proud of being part of something bigger than yourself, and you're excited about that, then I'm all for letting people know. I mean, I think that's I tried to do that with our program with our kids do something that I'm proud of, I want the world to know, and I think that's great. I think, you know, even promoting yourself on social media, I think is fine. I think there's anything wrong with that, I think we have a couple rules in our program that we don't talk about any other program, but ours, and so you talk about our rivals, or, when something bad happens, our rivals get beat or something like that, or you know, you'd go down to college football, basketball, wrestling, I mean, you name it, when somebody does something that, maybe is an embarrassment to their program, or is can be taken that way, I don't want to see any negative comments about any other program, whether it be our rivals, whether it be some school that we've never played before, I don't really care. We're going to post positive things about our program. And I don't want to see anything about anybody else's program, because I think that can open the door to a lot of issues. And I think, again, you know, when we're talking about social media, when we're talking, it's a window into who you are, and I'm proud to be at Michigan State, there's no one else I would rather be. And so you know, when we're talking about social media, if we're so concerned about what this school is doing, that means we're not as concerned about what we're doing, which is a problem. And so I want the focus to be on us, I want our focus to be on us, and what we do and what we're doing to get better across the board in athletics. You know, when our basketball program wins, tweeted out that we're the best, basketball program in the country, that's fine. Because I believe that and I know our players believe that same with football, whatever, but it's got to be about us. We take that same approach into the dugout, when we play, I don't want to hear any chirping, I don't want to hear anybody saying anything about the other team or to the other team. Because that's, again, we that's not what we can control, we control our team. And we're going to be enthusiastic for things that happen on our side, we're going to do with class, I'm not trying to rub anybody's nose in it. But I think if you come and watch this play, you'll see a team that plays the game the right way and I'm proud of that.
[00:33:59] Mike: Yeah, I think one of the things I see with high school kids is they're really aware of what other kids are doing. Like, oh, so and so hit 90 on the radar gun, so and so had this X velocity, so and so's doing this, that the other thing, and when they show up when they show up to a game to play those people, those kids, they're more focused on what they're doing across the way than what they're actually doing. They're looking across, they're watching them warm up, I'm very diligent about pointing out that has nothing to do with you. You go out there and focus on your game. And I agree with that approach. Because when we get caught up in what other people are doing, we compare ourselves, we could very easily lose our mental edge because we're too concerned about what we're not or what we're not doing or who's better than us doesn't matter. So I guess that leads me to my next question is, can you talk about what elements of the mental game you as a staff are incorporating like what you try to do with your players on a day to day basis in terms of them sharpening the mental side of baseball?
[00:34:55] Jake Boss: Yeah, we organized practice in a way that it moves as we go from one thing to the next to the next, and for young guys, again, those first couple of weeks, their heads are spinning. And I think part of it is just the pace of it, but part of it is the mental piece of it to that, you know, they're not used to that, you know, bouncing from one thing to the next, I think they feel some pressure that you know, there are a lot of, they're playing against, again, guys that are 20 to 23 years old, when really just needs to be about playing a game. And so we'll turn the music up on them in different situations during practice, during batting practice, during fly-ball priority to force them to communicate a little bit louder, and things like that, and eventually, they start to slow the game down a little bit. But you know, Mike, I mean, the recruiting process for high school kid, and the process with pro ball for our guys are very similar, I think we get guys that want to go out and try to light up a radar gun to impress somebody sitting behind the stands. And that the focus kind of shifts from what we're doing to play for Michigan State, in some instances to well, that I play well enough to get myself noticed by these pro guys and get drafted. And the sooner that our guys realize, and understand the idea that the better we play as a team, the better and more opportunities you're going to have as an individual, the sooner that, everybody just kind of tends to relax a little bit. And we had a kid a number of years ago, they got up to AAA with a couple different organizations in here, his junior year was really, you know, the stuff was good. And he was missing a lot of barrels, but just couldn't seem to avoid the beginning. And it would be to a point where start maybe the second time through the lineup, you know, everything would start to flatten out a little bit. And if you can just start to get knocked around, I think that was one of his focus, he was really trying to hear and he had somebody in his ear telling him, he had to strike more guys out which we had a problem with to begin with. And so again, I think who you listen to is very, very important. We went down and we played an SEC opponent, and a kid through a three hit shutout. And really at that point was more resigned to the fact that, okay, I'm just going to throw the ball to the glove and whatever happens, happens. And it was the best outing of his career. And he turned himself into a seventh round draft pick and had a pretty good pro career and was knocking on the door to the big leagues. And I think that was a turning point for him, where he just said, all right, I'm not going to throw the radar gun anymore, I'm going to throw it to the glove, and I'm going to trust in my ability and just let it happen. And again, it goes back to control what you can control, you can control what somebody's opinion of you is you can control how hard you play, you can control everything leading up to when the ball leaves the hand. And once the ball leaves the hand, there's nothing you can do about it anymore. And so I think that was a good learning point, learning experience for a guy. And it can be difficult, I think control is a big thing that we all want. But you know, again, I'm not a big, I don't necessarily care for the phrase, trust the process, because everybody talks about the process, and I'm racking my brain to come up with a different way to say it, but I can't and it's true. I mean that process of you getting to that point is what is most important that is going to that's your backbone, that's your that's your, you know, all the hours that you spent working and studying. And all of that leads to that point where you're in the heat of the moment, and how you play. And so at that point, you have to go out and play and whatever, whoever has whatever opinion really shouldn't matter, just go out and play the game.
[00:38:25] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I use process all the time and I think it is a little trite. But you know the other word, I was trying to think of something while you were talking, I think execution kind of comes to mind. You could execute a pitch, you can make a sharp pitch, or you can make a good swing, I hit the ball at somebody, or somebody is just better at that given moment, it doesn't mean you didn't make a good pitch, it means you got beat, that's different, you got beat, because the guy on the other end was better. But it doesn't mean you didn't make a good pitcher or good play. So I think a lot of times just any athlete struggles with that, because so much of the feedback we get is results driven.
[00:38:58] Jake Boss: That’s why it's such a great game. That's why it's such a great game. I mean, you can make a great pitch, and put it where you want to be you know, and somebody can hit it the other way for adult, but I think that's where, you know, my job is to help these guys understand. And it's the same thing that we tell recruits, and we tell high school coaches, listen, you can go four for four, and I don't want to, or you could go for four, and I could call you that night with a scholarship offer. The results don't necessarily matter all the time. And you just said it, the process leads to the execution. And if you can execute that pitch and somebody hits it, well, you know what? Maybe I want the hitter to them. You know, because that guy must be pretty good too. But I mean, it's the same thing with these pro guys, you know if our guys goes out, throws well and gets beat, well who cares what his record is, who cares what his era is? Because none of that stuff really necessarily matters. There are too many other factors that are involved in when in a win for a pitcher and an earned run average and all of that for a pitcher you know, you go out and execute your pitch good things are going to.
[00:40:00] Mike: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I love about being in a dugout, particularly with young people too is like, you can kind of just pay attention to what's going on. And some kids when something bad happens, something bad happens. Don't get bad mouthing. Don’t say like, oh, that guy or do this. And then the kids are really loved baseball go, man, that was a pretty good swing right there. That was a really good pitch and you put a bow on it, right? Like, that's how you know you love the game. Like you watch it you go, man, that's really hard to do. And that guy just did a good job. And it beat us I tipped my cat. Like, I love that about baseball, just to watch somebody do something really special, and say, hey, how am I going to get him back? Now? We lost that inning. How do we get the next one back? I talked to kids about that all the time, when in a bad when a pitch not like, Hey, I gotta win the game, it’s too far away.
[00:40:44] Jake Boss: Well, for sure. And I think that shows a lot of maturity. And the more kids you have like that on your team, I think the more you're gonna end up winning, because I think those guys are learning as well. You know, while they're playing like, that kid what a great app that that he just had? Well, they're obviously their mind is racing to well, okay, what made that a great at bat, as opposed to the guy that, you know, like you said, well, I mean, I can't believe that he did that, guy that gets upset about it. I'm not saying you have to like it. But at the same time, I think you have to learn from it, you have to be a student of the game, I think whenever we play and you know, I think that's one of the things that really is a big transition for maybe young guys when they get to the college level, is separating that type of game, the success and the failure, they're both going to happen. But what did we learn? Maybe I struck out three pitches while there was a three pitch sequence or maybe a six pitch at bat and ended up striking out well, what was the sequence of pitches in that at bat? Because I can use that information in my next at bat. What did I learn about that at bat? Okay, if I had a good at bat, six, seven pitch at bat, but I end up striking out, the guy that comes back to the dugout, in his throwing the bat and helmet, because he struck out hasn't learned a thing, which means it's going to happen again, as opposed to the guy that understands well, again, you don't have to be happy about striking out. But you better take that information that you just had, that he was just presented to you learn from it, so that it doesn't happen again next step, but those are the guys that you want to have on your ball-club.
[00:42:09] Mike: Absolutely. And the flip side of that, too, is having teammates in the dugout who can recognize a good at bat and still have a seven or eight pitch strikeout at that where you're falling off pitches, you're right on the guy, and you just get beat by one. And when it comes back to the dugout, you tap on it and say, hey, that's great or bad, don't sweat it, get it next time that's really important. So I mean, we're running up on time here. So I don't want to keep you past another five minutes or so. But to kind of close it out, if you had to give one suggestion to high school athletes who are looking to play college and one suggestion to parents, who are those athletes, guardians, like what would you suggest to the both of those groups?
[00:42:47] Jake Boss: Well, to the player, I mean, I think it's pretty easy. And you may be looking for a more technical answer or whatever, but I just may be a more of an old school guy, but I think play hard all the time, your ability is going to speak for itself. Some guys have been blessed with a lot of ability, some guys have been blessed with marginal ability, you can't fake that. Guys like me, it's my job to kind of decipher that it's our staffs, you know, job to decipher what kind of ability where we see that, how we see that playing out down the road, your job as a player is to play as hard as you can all the time. And we tell our guys the same thing we want to take that same approach with professional scouts, we have a sign in our hitting building as you walk out. And the last thing there are guys see before they walk out onto that field. And the science is just pretty simple. It says impress somebody today. And that's what how we want to go about our business, we want to be impressive. As somebody who's going to see you play, we say it all the time to work is somebody who's going to see you play for the very first time, every time you play the game. And it could be somebody's mom, it could be somebody's grandfather, it could be a pro scout it, who knows? I mean, somebody though, is going to see you play every time you play the game. Your job is to leave a lasting positive impression on that person, like a man that number 12. I don't know who that kid is, but that kid stood out in a good way. I think that's what our job is whether you go for four, you can go for four and go completely unnoticed. And you can go over four and people leave the field talking about you both in a good way in a bad way. So we got to make sure that we stand out in a positive way. And I would say to parents love and support your student athlete, that's your job. Let the coach do the coaching. If you feel you know, I mean yelling at the umpire, I think is one thing but it for me, I played for my dad in high school, so I was kind of used to that my dad, my dad was very vocal. But if it came from my mom and the stands, I was the most embarrassed person out there, and I think a lot of kids feel that way. You know, when mom and dad start chirping at the umpire and start chirping at other, at the other team and other kid’s players and things like that. The more emotional I think you get the more negative emotions show I think is apparent, the more it embarrasses your player and your son. So your job again is to love your son, support your son, and be there for them both in the successes and in the failures. I think your job when they fail for my kids, if they ever had a game where there was a lack of effort, that's when I would have a problem. And that would be the conversation in the car on the way home that would not be me yelling at them from the bleachers onto the field. That would be the conversation between the two of us on the way home, and that's why this is a problem. Apart from that, again, I think your job is to love and love and support your kid and let them play the game. Let them have a good time playing the game.
[00:45:39] Mike: It's great advice. Coach, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I love it. I could talk all day about baseball, but unfortunately we don't have all day, but I just want to thank you so much for coming on here today and sharing some thoughts.
[00:45:51] Jake Boss: I appreciate it, Mike. Thanks for having me. I love that sweatshirt, man. I'm gonna have to get one of those.
[00:45:56] Mike: Thank you. I'm enjoying it. All right, well, I hope you and your family have a great holiday.
[00:46:01] Jake Boss: Likewise. Thank you.
[00:46:08] PODCAST OUTRO: Mike Huber is the founder and owner of “Follow the Ball Coaching” located in Fairhaven, New Jersey. He is a mental performance coach and business advisor dedicated to serving athletes just like you reach their full potential on and off the court. The Freshmen Foundation is all about helping you get to the next level. For more information, follow along on Instagram at thefreshmenfoundation. Please subscribe. Give us a like on iTunes, Spotify, leave a review, tell a friend. Most importantly, come back in two weeks. Ready to get better.