How is Andrew Petcash leveraging his athletic experiences to disrupt the sports technology industry?
College athletes often struggle to accept life after sport because a big part of their identity is lost. Finding purpose after college sports can be a huge challenge. However, athletes that apply their passions in a creative and entrepreneurial way go on to earn professional success.
My guest on this episode, Andrew Petcash, is one of those athletes. Andrew is a former Division I basketball player for Boston University and now a sports technology innovator.
Andrew is an entrepreneur seeking to disrupt the athletic recruiting process through a new platform called Athletes in Recruitment.
AIR is a cross between a dating app and LinkedIn that helps high school student-athletes find the perfect match with a college program.
In Episode 25, Andrew talks about his own recruiting journey and how he is using his experience to build a technology-based recruiting solution for young athletes and their families.
My suggestion to young athletes is to apply the same drive and intensity that you had as a college athlete to whatever professional endeavor that you pursue. Your experiences as the consummate risk-taker will be extremely valuable in the business world.
I want to thank Andrew for his kind generosity and the wisdom he shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can follow Andrew on Twitter @AndrewPetcash and Instagram @collegeathleteinsight.
You can learn more about The Freshman Foundation on our website at freshmanfoundation.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back soon for Episode 26!
Mike: Hey Andrew, how's it going?
[00:00:03] Andrew Petcash: Mike, what's up? Thanks for having me on brother.
Mike: It was my pleasure. Thanks for joining me. For everyone who's listening, could you just take a little bit of time and let them know who you are and what you do?
[00:00:14] Andrew Petcash: For sure, yeah. My name is Andrew Petcash. I graduated from Boston University here last May, certainly five, six months ago, played basketball there.You know, I've always kind of built things on the side, some online businesses while in school than NIL hit, and I was like, dang, I missed out on the whole boat by six months. So just through social media built up a pretty big Twitter following in recruiting, jumped in the NIL, I'm still meeting a bunch of cool people. And we've developed this app [inaudible 00:46] takes the concepts of LinkedIn and Tinder profiles at the college recruiting. And then as NIL was moving downstream, you know, we're starting to see some of that collaboration. And then I started writing as well.On the side, it's led to some pretty cool opportunities. I actually am going to have my co-hosted show for 93 Seven, the fan in Pittsburgh. It's like one of the biggest radio stationsat the start of the New Year. So yeah, I found kind of what we were talking about earlier before the show, entrepreneur journey, putting yourself out there, no risk, no reward, and it's paid off. But you know, there's ups and downs, it's been fun.You know, it doesn't matter. You're my age or yours. You mean you just got to get started.
Mike: Absolutely
[00:01:34] Andrew Petcash: I know, we're gonna talk about that a little later of, you know, what's your word, but I said figured out let's get started right off with that. If you're listening to this, you're already doing the right thing.
Mike: Absolutely. Yeah, I love all of it. There's a lot to get into, and we'll get into NIL stuff. But for those who aren't familiar and are listening, what is NIL stands for, and can you just talk a little bit about that?
[00:02:00] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I should cut touched on that before, but NIL is name image likeness. So it's basically allows you to make money off your own name. It applies to college athletes now, but it really applies to everyone. You know, your name image likeness is who you are your personal brand. And can you make money off of it? And a lot of that stumps today from social media.
Mike: Yep. I'm really curious about that. So we'll definitely get into that later. But I guess just take a step back like you said you're a basketball player at Boston University. So can you just kind of talk about your athletic background and how you got there?
[00:02:35] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I had a crazy that's kind of how I got started on this Is it crazy story. My junior year, I got a few division one offers. I was working hard. I knew what I wanted, and I committed to Army West Point thinking, oh, this is what I want to do. But I didn't really completely understand the whole military that you have to go serve for five years after, throw me in a loop. I de-commit lose all my offers. Its senior year, you know, my graduation in June. Everyone knows where they're going to college. They've known for months and I'm just sitting there going, what am I doing? I'm thinking about going to prep school. And as soon as I do that, start planning because I can go down a grade and start playing in those tournaments. And Boston University comes and they say, hey, we want to offer you for next year after your prep school year. I'm like, great, whatever. Then maybe a month goes by 10 days before I'm supposed to go to prep school, 7 days before Boston University starts school. The head coach calls me and goes, hey, we had some trouble. One of the gods isn't on the team anymore. Would you want to come this year? And I was like, Heck, yeah, like let's do it, and it turned out great. And actually funny enough, my first day on campus, just talking about [inaudible 03:53] I broke my wrist playing pickup. So I missed the whole offseason and somehow in the second half of the season, I still found a way to get some playing time. But yeah, it was a crazy journey. It was like, hey, you finally got here and then you break your wrist on the first day. So that was pretty wild.
Mike: Wow that is pretty crazy. But can you talk about, I mean, the army situation bit more. Now obviously, I'm always fascinated because I don't really understand how that works. You know, because the admission process to the military academies is so unique when they're recruiting athletes, like what did that look like for you? And like, at what point where you're like, well, I'm not sure what I'm getting into?
[00:04:30] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, they put on a great visits. You know, they took me to a football game. They have all the traditions and it's awesome. And they really bring you into the culture. The coaches are great. They're still great. The same guys there that recruited me, and actually they're in our conference. So we played him four times or two times a year. And it was always, I wouldn't say it was awkward, but he kind of hated me because I de-committed actually on Signing Day from there. So I kind of screwed them just as I mean, I screwed myself and screwed them a little bit. But yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of tradition, they do a lot of cool stuff. But they're not I wouldn't say they're not the best team, it's hard to recruit there. But they do kind of, I wouldn't say they cover up the military, but they don't make it an emphasis enough in my opinion. So like, I didn't really realize like, you're waking up at 6am every day, you're eating the same meals with everyone in the school. You're going to serve for five years after there's no getting out of it. And at the time, I wanted to play pro basketball overseas after. So I was like, well, I can't do that if I have to go to army. So that actually got me out. And then funnily enough, last year, I get to the same point. I'm like, yeah, I don't really want to play pro basketball anymore. So the whole reason I didn't go there just completely changed in four years which is pretty well. But yeah, now I respect them. I have some buddies that go there and it's an awesome place. I would love to give back in some way possible at some point. Because it still touched me a little in my life, even though I didn't go there.
Mike: Cool. So did you play other sports growing up through high school?
[00:06:08] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I was a big baseball player till 9th grade and then my AAU coach, and sometimes I joke about this with my family like, hey, I'm a 6’4” not the most athletic kid in the world. I should have played baseball with had a chance to go pro like basketball like I mean, you know how it is? It's a little tougher. So we joke about that was my main sport. And then my AAU coach came along and introduced me to like curry, and he was awesome and playing with some pro guys that were overseas locally. And I also played tennis in high school. And then yeah, I mean, I just kind of fell in love with basketball, and it was like, hey, let's do it. It's really hard to get there and I wanted the biggest challenge. But I still think it's the hardest, you have to be the most athletic to play basketball. And I still think in office, this is my opinion, get everyone to fight you on this. But I think it's the hardest sport to be good at.
Mike: So tell me more about that. I'm damn curious about that now. So what do you think distinguishes basketball? What makes it the hardest?
[00:07:15] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, it's skill plus athleticism, and what size and strength? Football, I mean, there's tons of example, like football players will say, Oh, it's the most athletic. Yeah, it's the most athletic strength, size, whatever. But you don't see you know, a basketball player. I'm sorry, you don't see a football player that can go play in the NBA. LeBron James, he go play in the NFL instantly and that's a lot of my gauge as well. And you can teach a basketball player to play any sport and be decent. You know, you see Michael Jordan goes and plays professional baseball. And I mean, was he the best player ever? No, but he could do it. And I mean, there's tons of good athletes, it's hard to say, especially when you get to that elite level. But even like Steph Curry's a really good golfer. No golfer could ever go play professional basketball. So that's kind of my gauge. I mean, ton of variables there.
Mike: I think the one, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I certainly think there's an argument for it. I think the thing for me that makes basketball so challenging is the decision making aspect. Because you're moving so fast. The game moves so quickly, especially in the shot clock model, where you have to make choices constantly and you have to do it within a split second, and I think a lot of sports don't have that man unless your quarterback and football, maybe a soccer player but the game moves much more slowly. Hockey, perhaps you're on skates. But the decision making is what is hard for me like and I'm really interested in that as a sports psychology professional is like, how do the greatest athletes make decisions? Like what do they see? How do they anticipate? Like, what is the process their brain goes through? And I think for me, when you couple that with the jumping, the running, and the physicality all that, that makes basketball a really difficult thing to do.
[00:09:07] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, it's just a combination of so many things. I mean, what do you think's the hardest sport? Like if you had to kind of pick what would you go?
Mike: It’s a good question. I mean, you know, it's hard because I'm exposed to all of them, and they all have their own unique elements. To be honest with you, sort of like in saying that like, I could certainly make the argument for basketball because of all the things especially as you move up in level. I think if you're, you know, in high school, it might be different than if you're playing in college where like, you know, you might go from being the best player on your team in high school because you're just a dead on shooter. And then you step up to college, especially at the division one level, and guys can shoot but they also can jump out of the gym. There's they're strong and they're right like, they're quick and then you're sort of like running up against these guys who are just freakish right, in a lot of ways. And I think that could be the argument. I think quarterback is probably the hardest position to play in all sports. I wouldn't kind of agree with to deviate from that, but I love it. I love the conversation, because there are so many variables that go into being great at any sport and it's not just the physical stuff.
[00:10:26] Andrew Petcash: Now what to like, you obviously work with a bunch of athletes? Sure, basketball players, I mean, what are some things they kind of, you know, say are difficult, or they have a tough time mentally you know, getting around to because for me, the thing was always being like, aggressive and mentally like, I could go score 20 points in the game, especially in high school. But then it was like, you play a game the next night and it's like, how do you like replicate that consistently? Because you play a lot of games and basketball. So I'm just kind of curious, like what other, you know, mental stuff or psychology stuff that you've found?
Mike: The things I I've seen, because I have worked with basketball players, I think the biggest challenge relates to dealing with failure. So if a player makes a bad, doesn't make a play, right, they make a mistake, say they miss a shot, and they tell themselves, I should have made that shot. It stays with them, and they can't shake it. And they can't see that the decision, right? Like, I'll go back to this, they can't see it was a good decision. They made a good choice, they took an open shot, they just missed it, but they're beating themselves up for missing the shot. And the truth of the matter is, you're gonna miss 5 or 6 shots out of 10 anyway, but you made a good choice. So rather than just saying, Hey, I made a good choice, I'm going to pull it again. And next time I have it, they start to think like, oh, I should have made that they get into their own head. And they lose trips up and down the court, because they're so focused on the mistake that they made three, four or five plays ago. And that's something I've actually worked on with basketball players like, hey, alright, let it go. How do we let it go and move on to the next play? Because otherwise, you're just distracted, and you can't be at your best. And then you're going to get beat on the defensive end because you're caught up in your own head and some guys gonna go right past you. So I think that's probably the biggest thing with basketball and it applies to other sports.
[00:12:21] Andrew Petcash: Oh yeah.
Mike: But basketball, because you're also five guys away from the ball. Like you can get like, caught up into a fog if you're not on ball, and so it's a challenge.
[00:12:35] Andrew Petcash: I know, you made a bunch of great points there. So actually another thing, same trying to stay busy. But my dad's the high school basketball coach, where I'm from now. And so I'm helping him coach this year, a little bit on the side. And, you know, we have some kids that are really good shooters, but it's the same kind of thing like they miss a shot and I was never this way. So it's this is wasn't a problem for me luckily, because my dad when I was young would always just say to the next shot, go one for one, go one for, go one for one. So when I missed it was never a problem. But I also wasn't like a huge volume shooter. I was like, I always prided myself on being an efficient player like, Hey, let's go score 20 points. But let's do it in 10 shots, or there's other guys, they would go score 20 but it did take 30. And I'm like, did you really help your team? So in a way, yeah, I mean, I didn't like missing shots but I prided myself on like, hey, like, let's be efficient.
Mike: Alright, but that also goes back to the decision making piece of it. You are, maybe without using those terms, you are making a conscious decision to make good choices, right? If I'm open, I'm going to take it, the situation lends itself I'm going to take it, but I'm not going to just shoot to shoot. And I think that's part of the decision making part of being a smart player, but also understanding risk and reward like, why am I going to take this shot now if there's a better look, right, there's one more pass to be made. Yeah, I can make this but is it better for me to look off and get it to the next guy to move the ball. And that's also something that I love to watch as a fan and a coach is that one extra pass knowing that okay, I got a good open look. But if I make one more pass, is that a better option? And the guys who make that extra pass just like are really are the best players because they're creating movement in the defense that you know, you can't get by standing still.
[00:14:23] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, a pass will always be to the dribble up the floor. Yeah, I mean, I love that's why when the Warriors a lot of people gave them a lot of crap, but they were the most fun team maybe of all time the watch. Because they played really hard. They weren't the tallest. They weren't the quickest. They weren't the fastest. They played the right way and that was always fun watching them.
Mike: So I coached, I worked with a coach who on a basketball team who played basketball in college, one of the smartest basketball guy and most smart guy in general, but one of the smartest guys I've ever met basketball wise and he was on my podcast and he always would say, throw a head, throw a head, throw head, he would just hit them over the head and practice, like throw the ball up the court, like you got it, move it with the past and don't dribble. And you know, I was not, I played basketball, but I was very good. But I was never coached that way. And I started to see like, that's just so important right, you can beat the other team up the floor with that throw ahead. And that speaks to habits, like basketball players, there in first instinct is usually what, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, put the ball down on the deck and dribble. And you've got to drill that and you've got to drill that routine into the players head of like, Hey, we're going to practice this every day, throw head, throw a head, throw ahead, here's why we're going to do it. If you keep doing it, you're going to see the results. And that's a big part of the mental game in any sport is, hey, just get focused on the process of doing this, understand why you're doing it and ultimately, it's just going to become second nature and you're going to make better decisions rather than just okay, I'm gonna go default back to putting the ball on the deck and stick my head down and drive into traffic.
[00:16:00] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, now that actually kind of a funny story based on that. So last night, we were playing a game, we were playing a really bad team. It's just a fall league scrimmage game. And I'm talking about my high school team give them hope and courage. So we're beating them by like, it's like 15, 15 in the fourth. My dad's, the coach, me and the other assistant, Donnie, we're like, hey, no more passed, or no more dribbling, like, we have to pass all the way up the court and we tried it out. And then us coaches at the end were like, what have to do? Is it real games like we were so much more productive and you just see times when guys take dribbles, and they didn't need them. Yeah, I know, I know, we got a little sidetracked here.
Mike: That's, that's awesome. I love that
[00:16:41] Andrew Petcash: In the basketball world a little bit since I haven't played in a few months.
Mike: Yeah, coaching is also infectious, being on the bench, being with the guys helping them to get better, like I love to being part of a coaching staff where I would sit on the bench and see the guys every day, watch him and practice, get to talk to them, get to know them and that's different than what I'm doing now, which is I do a lot of individual work. And there's definitely something to be said for being a mental coach, and a team environment because you get to see every single day and build those relationships, which is really critical to being able to help athletes is to really get to know them and build that trust so that you can then really suggest changes that they're gonna make, because they trust that you're trying to do the right thing.
[00:17:27] Andrew Petcash: So yeah, I mean, what you do is super important. Sorry, to cut you off a little bit.
Mike: No, you're good.
[00:17:34] Andrew Petcash: I mean, Boston, you we had, like people like yourself within our programs. I mean, there's immense value in that. And a lot of people lower levels are just younger, not familiar like, they don't understand that. And if I got to the pros, I would 100% higher in my own. I mean, it's something back the army when I went there, they had like three people, and they really took it seriously but you're also thrown in military. I mean, you got a lot more to handle mentally their schools works harder.
Mike: The military has a very, very strong infrastructure. In fact, the United States military, not the academy, but the military is the largest employer of sports psychology professionals in the United States, because they have a very regimented and wide reaching mental resilience training program. And so they hire a lot of sports psychology grads, to come in and do those trainings for the soldiers, you know, for the active duty military. And so it's, the academies have the same and I love that, and I love to hear that schools have it. Now, it's interesting because there's so many colleges out there who have a huge investment more so than the military academy, more so than Boston University, these big universities, and they don't even make the investments in it. They have one person for a whole, you know, 500 person athletic department, and they're making, they're generating 10s of millions of dollars every year. So it's interesting philosophically to see like some schools really buy into it, and some schools are just like, Yeah, we don't need that they're more into the physical performance.
[00:19:14] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, that's something people don't understand even about college. I mean, [inaudible 19:20] and there's stats and whatever. But if you're under 6’4”, it's like a .001% chance to play college basketball division one level. So I always find myself like, that's kind of getting back to earlier like, yeah, this is one of the hardest things to do and I was like, I want to do it. But I mean, what comes along with that I mean, you're, you're a full time employee. So I love seeing the NIL and guys having opportunity to get paid. But I mean, it wasn't just like, hey, we went to school, we have practice, we had games, you know, we could go party. It was like, no, you're gonna wake up on Sunday morning, and you're going to go to community service and you're going to go work a walk, and then at 10 You're going to have yoga and you're going to get your body right and then at 12 You're going to work with this sport sight guy and then you're going to go study hall and I mean, it’s very regimented. And that's why it's like funny. I always laugh about this because I was I was like, yeah, I didn't go to the army. And I was like, I think my schedule was just as regimented if not more at BU being, you know, division one athlete. And I mean, we had a good team to my junior year we won. This is a story that people always ask me about my junior year, we won our conference. So we won the Patriot League, going to the NCAA tournament, probably going to be a 15 seed 14, play someone pretty good. But you know, you never know, there's upsets every year, and yeah, COVID happened. So it was my last. So before I wanted to go pro, my last basketball goal was make the NCAA March Madness thorny, did it and, yeah, I mean, everyone knows kind of where we've been stuck the last couple years.
Mike: Very challenging for all college athletes. But certainly like, you know, having reached that goal, and actually getting the chance to play. But I did want to ask you about a little bit more about your transition into college. Obviously, your recruiting story is unique. When you get to be you obviously said you got hurt, which obviously throws a wrench into it. But like, can you talk about the transition, like what that was like going from high school to college with that regimented schedule, and all these sort of new challenges that maybe you didn't have before?
[00:21:22] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, they just throw, I mean, you're just thrown in a fire, that's the crazy thing. And they've gotten better. You know, they started recruiting differently. They started recruiting a little bit good basketball players, but better kids and better students. So it's gotten better there. And I think my class actually kind of led that transition there. But I mean, you're thrown in from day one. I mean, you're not used to waking up early to go lift at six in the morning. And then you're not used to going and taking hard classes in the morning, and then the afternoon and then go to study hall and then you're like, oh, I have all this freedom I want to go party. You know, it's an interesting transition that people don't account for. Because my brother, so my youngest brother, he's at Miami of Ohio, he just went to school for regular. COVID kind of messed up his basketball career, just in terms of recruiting and stuff. But my brothers at Binghamton, which is also do you want in New York, playing there. And we just always kind of talk about my expose like, you'll have so much time I don't know what to do. But me and my other brother like, time, like we never had time for anything. So for me, when I first got home, and everything happened, I was like, this is like, I need to go build stuff and do stuff because I have so much time. So that transition, it sucked at first, especially my freshman year when I got hurt, which I did in rehab, and even more stuff. But then now I'm like, so grateful for it. Because when I wake up at six in the morning, I'm like, hey, I'm waking up at six in the morning to go write an article, instead of waking up and lifting and getting screamed at and yelled at. And instead of going to practice you know, I'm just going to play basketball for fun and then I'm building something that's cool. So to me, it's been the transition, like the pain of it has helped now. And I think, as an you know, trying to be an owner of companies and stuff, I would hire college athlete over a regular employee, I need a regular student any day of the week.
Mike: I think that's sentiments pretty consistent, at least anecdotally, I think employers love college athletes for a lot of reasons. But it is the structure and is the discipline that comes with being a college athlete that really is attractive to employers. Especially now like, if you're a non-athlete in college, like there's just so many other things you could sort of get into, and there is a lot of free time. And I feel like with social media, people are just even more. And listen, I love social media. It's a huge valuable tool.
[00:24:02] Andrew Petcash: Look at it, my Facebook. I got shut down yesterday, and the world was like going crazy.
Mike: Yes, and it's funny you say that, because people were like talking about that. And like, oh, it was a good thing, because I can't get to Facebook. And I'm like, no, it's not like, I need to send a post that I was gonna send from my, so there's good and bad in it. But like, I feel like if you're 18, 19 years old, and you're in college like, it just becomes so central to your social life. And, you know, when you get out what do you do, right? You have to get up and go to work at like, you know, 7 o'clock in the morning and you're at work, you got to be productive, like you can't be on your phone all day. You have to work and you know, you might have to work late or you might have to work on a weekend and you're doing that already. So it just gives a huge advantage to the athlete at that point to say like I've already done this, like, I know how to make it work. So it's a huge advantage for employers.
[00:24:56] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, now I agree 100% with that. I mean, our whole team [inaudible 25:02] I mean, we're all former, besides our developers in India that are kind of doing the app and tech stuff. Our business management side is all former division one college athletes, which is, you don't see and it's pretty cool. And we're all we're all pretty young, which we think is our advantage, not a disadvantage. Especially in this world of an eye on college recruiting, just changing. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting thing you don't see very much.
Mike: You mentioned, there was a point during college at some point where you sort of said, I don't want to play professional basketball, like, what was that at? What point was that? And like, when you sort of decided that in your mind like, did you kind of shift to entrepreneurship as sort of the next step for you once you get out of school?
[00:25:52] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, I've always kind of been building stuff or finding ways to do stuff on the side and make money. I've always enjoyed that building and process. But it was definitely when COVID hit, I was like you know, it's just too crazy and I realized like the balls gonna stop bouncing eventually.So whether that's 10 years or 2 months, I was like, I'd rather be the former.And I also saw some of the guys that went overseas from our team before, and the money is not great. I'm not saying that's everything. I mean, you get to live in another country. But you're also living in another country. So yeah, you know, your teammates, we don't know anyone else. You're kind of isolated where you practice, play, and then you're back in your room, and you don't live a ton of that experience. So I guess, I've kind of from seeing other guys and some of them are having an awesome time and that's their goal. And that's what they want to do and I respect that.But for me, it was more like, hey, I want to be here in the States. And I want to build something that's gonna help a ton of people, and I want to do ultimatelywhat I want to do, which basketball not going NBA, I realized that.
Mike: One of my prior guests, he's a bit older than you, I would say, he's probably about 10 years older than you are. But he tells a story on the podcast, and he's very open about this. He was a football player at Central Michigan. And he was forced to retire due to back injuries. And he went through a really hard time after that, because in his mind, like the only outcome was professional football. But it wasn't until he found something bigger, right to look forward to, where he could really kind of shift his thinking and become happy again, and really not be in a bad place. And like, that's sort of what you're describing. Like, you're looking forward to something bigger like, the next chapter of your life is like, Hey, let me build a business or businesses that like gets me out of bed every day. Because for a lot of athletes, the only thing that got them out of bed for so long was, I'm gonna get to go play. And then they're like, I have to go do a job, or I have to go just do this or what am I going to do when it's over? Like, it doesn't sound like that something you're dealing with asthma.
[00:28:11] Andrew Petcash: No, not now, but I don't want to sugarcoat it. Like, there was a few months where I was like, in the dumps like, what am I doing? I haven't touched a basketball, that's never happened in my life. I'm not an athlete anymore. Know who am I, and obviously, everything that's been going on, played into that a little. And then I met James, who basically found it there. And we got it rolling in the team and started doing some of this other stuff that all ties back, we basically say air is the central, but we all, our whole team kind of does a few other things on the side that tie it all back to the ecosystem and that's kind of what we call it. I don't know, some people call it networking, whatever, it's same sort of deal. We're just trying to tie it all back.But yeah, I would say most athletes will go through that they're gonna go through a few months, where they're like, who am I? What am I doing? And for me, it was nice, because I did have my parent’s support where they let me come home, and I didn't have to worry about paying a bill or something. But then it was like, okay buddy, you know, let's go. Let's build something, andyou know, it's been fun, and there's no looking back. And I get honestly, the best part is I get to meet people like yourself, and you know, talk to a bunch of cool people throughout it, where to me, that's always what I wanted to do. I always like building things, and I like talking to cool people meeting cool people. And so that's why every day I wake up now and some of my friends are 24 and they went to they went to college and it was the best time I left a college was great for me too. But what I'm doing now I still have fun and to me.It's like they kind of went past their best days. And I never want that to be me on whether I'm 60 or 20 or 30. So that's kind of my mindset on all that.
Mike: Well I relate to that on many, many levels. So I agree with that. Like for me, I'm building something every day, and I love to meet good people. That's why I got into this podcast, I like to talk to interesting people about cool stuff that's, you know, related to my business, but at the same time, I can tell you like, as an adult, as a parent, like that regret or that sort of, what's the right word I'm looking for the reminiscing about the glory days still happens for people my age who either are living vicariously through their children sports, or they talk about like, Oh back in high school, like, Hey listen, I love a good old high school story with my buddies. But like, at the same time, if that's what I'm talking about now. Like, I'm not as interested in it, right? I'm thinking about like, what’s tomorrow gonna bring? Like, what am I doing today to like, build my future? Because you know, that's what's important that, it doesn't end. And I think that for a lot of people, they don't necessarily see this way the things the way you do, which is to say like, hey, like, I got this huge opportunity in front of me. I'm gonna take a little bit of risk, but I'm getting to build something that's my own versus like, hey, I kind of been there done that like, I'm just paying the bills now, which Listen, there's nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of people in my life who have a job and they like to have their life the way they have it. Certainly, like, I don't live a glamorous life doing what I'm doing. Because, you know, it's hard like, it's hard where's the next dollar coming from and all those things, but at the same time, it's like, if I really believe in what I'm doing, which is, you know, clearly what where you're at what you're doing, then it just, it makes it worth it. At least that's my view.
[00:31:42] Andrew Petcash: Oh yeah. I mean, it's 100% worth it. My thing has always, and I wrote about this today and I released. I have athletes, coaches, parents that kind of read what I, what I write and put out, so I try to relate a little. But the thing was like, Okay, you got to define a goal. So your goal is whatever, but you got to be really specific. So I'll use basil's example, because that's what we're talking about here. But my goal was always, it wasn't just to be a college basketball player. It was, I wanted to play division one, and I wanted to go to a high academic school and I'm also preferred an urban campus. And I got that, I mean, I didn't get it till seven days before, it's almost slipped away and there's a bunch of stuff that happened. But I knew that in its direction, then the second part was you have to work for it. I worked out every day in basketball. That doesn't say I was, you know, going and running and doing crazy stuff. I mean, if it was an off day, I would shoot for 15 minutes and dribble like, I was always doing something. So it was always working, moving, compounding getting 1% and then the third is there's always to me a struggle. So there's going to be something where the universe is like, no, no, do you really want this? So that was you know, me getting hurt me, not de-committing schools taken away my offers all that. And then before, so then to me, it's going to happen after that point, if you can get through all those. And then the fourth to me is you got to enjoy it. You got to kind of let it go. You know what you want, it's gonna come. I always kind of have a feeling like it's gonna come, but you got to like, you got it. It's hard like, I struggle with this too. Like, I sit here and talk about this stuff. But we all struggle through this. It's not easy. I mean, you know, you deal with this and what people talk about.
Mike: All the time.
[00:33:24] Andrew Petcash: But I found like, when I let it go, and I don't constantly like, absorb in it. So I wasn't constantly, I gotta go do want to go to and just kind of let it and I'm doing the work unbelieving, and I have that goal, it will come and I took that from basketball. And I did a lot of this without knowing any of the science without reading books. And then I started doing that and I go, Holy crap, I did it not knowing. Okay, now let me go do it knowing and it's kind of worked in the same direction in the business and that was something there's anyone like, listen to that. It's like, set a clear goal, and work every day towards it. Get through the struggle in the down period, and have fun, just enjoy the process, you know, come because then you're going to look back and I look back and go, Oh, that was fun getting there. But it wasn't getting the one that was fun. It was like building myself and getting better. And I'm trying to do the same thing now. And I'm sure you feel the same way.
Mike: Yeah, it's so fascinating on so many levels, because there's the mental performance coaching work that I do is part like I deal with that all the time with, especially with high school athletes, who are the recruiting and commitments and scholarship offers are like the biggest thing. So to your point, one, they don't know the criteria for the schools they want to be at, they don't think about it and say like, this is what's really important to me, they just say like, Hey, I want to take the first offer or like, I just want to be wanted, there's that, then when they don't get that result that they want. They get really demotivated and they get in some cases get like I wouldn't say you know they get. They experienced some depression around it because they're trying so hard, but they're not getting the result, which means they're not really enjoying the process of being an athlete and making themselves better. And it's like this, it's all about motivation. What you just described is like, you set goals to motivate yourself, and you do the work every day. You get comfortable with the process and you try to enjoy it, so that it's sustainable. Because otherwise, if you're just getting feedback based on the result, you're gonna burn out. And so it's the same for me personally, in my business, there are some days I can I'm sure you have this experience. I know I do. When I'm working all the time, I could work for a week and not get a phone call, and not get an email. And I go, well, what am I doing here? But then I have to remind myself like, hey, you're doing this because you love it. Every day, it's an investment, and then you're gonna get a return. It's just a long term play. And so like, but we all need that feedback, and so that's the struggle, right? How do we create the conditions for us to get that feedback, so I'll do something else, I'll do something new. I'll change something I'm doing. And I think a lot of young people struggle with that. It sounds like you're the exception. But I think for a lot of young people, they don't really are, not really comfortable with the idea of like, what can I do differently today? Because they don't want to be uncomfortable, or they're not used to failing and they don't want to put themselves in that position. So they just don't do anything. But then they get frustrated like, Hey, why isn't this changing? And I'll be like, well, why isn't it changing? I don't know. I'm not really doing anything different. Yeah, no kidding like, so like it all goes sort of goes back to what I do. It's not, and a lot of in a lot of ways. It's not rocket science what I do, but I love to be able to be the facilitator for these younger athletes to make them think about what's really important. You know, what's really important to you? I actually, it's funny, I have a client, who's very similar to your situation, plays different sport. But like he had a couple of, he had real strong interest from a couple of NESCAC schools like Division Three, but high academic…
[00:36:57] Andrew Petcash: Good schools
Mike: Good grade schools, right.
[00:36:59] Andrew Petcash: Williams College Amhurst.
Mike: Exactly. So those are basically the two schools. And academically, it turns out that he was sort of like on the fringe and things didn't work out for him. And now he's sort of had to reevaluate like, I don't know, where I didn't know where he really wanted to go. Now he's looking at prep school. And so it turns out that that could really be a blessing for him. In the sense that maybe prep schools away, he needed to go to get that extra year, to kind of get more seasoning to rethink things, put himself in a better position. But like you said, like you were ready to do that. And then all of a sudden, you got the result that you wanted, but you weren't expecting it, you were just sort of focused on okay, what can I control? I think it's just the stories are so great for young athletes to understand that. It doesn't have to be the same formula. I get offered as soon as possible. And then I go off and play Division one, and everything's gonna be perfect. It's like, that's just not the way the world works.
[00:37:53] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, now I mean, well said I. Yeah, I mean, you…
Mike: I'm on my soapbox
[00:37:59] Andrew Petcash: Though I love it. You summed it up perfectly. I love it. But I mean, a lot of that I credit this. I mean, obviously, my parents did a great job and instill good stuff in me. I mean, I think that's huge and a lot of kids don't have that. And so that's where someone like yourself is very influential. And I've tried, I mean, we built a platform, so not as much like a service. I mean, we want it that way for kids with [inaudible 38:24] I'm talking about, but the biggest thing for me was just reading books and I'll promote that till the day I die. Is that like you get the experience without the mistakes, like you see what works for other people what hasn't? So I don't know if you ever read atomic habits by James clear, but I mean, that's one where I'm like, holy crap, this guy went through five years to find the best habits, and how to change habits. So you read that book. And now I know how to create good habits just from him, instead of going through myself. And now, you know, 35 and I learned myself when I can just read for, I read one chapter a night for seven days and I read that now. I have good, better habits as long as you put it to work. So I've always said readings huge, and that's changing. I'll always recommend that to kids.
Mike: I love, it's good advice. A lot of kids don't love to read. I will say this though. I'm an early adopter of James clear’s. I would read his blog, and I've never read the book. It's on my shelf. But I used to read his blogs. And I was always fascinated by the way he thought about things because it's so common sensical and so simple but it's right on point. So I was at a baseball camp this summer. The high school I worked out for a bit, the coach invited me to come down. And I did like a little 15 minute talk for some of the kids like just kind of in a break period about the mental side of baseball. And I start talking to the kid and he's like, one of these kids that, oh yeah, I'm reading this book, my trainer recommended. I'm like, oh, what it is? He's like atomic habits. The kid was like 14 years old and I was like, Do you are on your way to like, you're on your way because for a 14, 15 year old kid to read a book like that and go, like, Hey, I just need to know how to build good habits. And I'm gonna put the work in to do that. Like, it translates in every area of your life. And it's like, you can learn it 35 or 40, or whatever. The sooner the better though, like you said.
[00:40:22] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, just implementing those little things. And it compounds, I really like, so the compound effect, I don't know if you've ever read that book. But that's the book that like, ignited me into good habits. And then you read atomic habits, and now you get you like, it just compounds on compounds, and so I love that kind of stuff. I can always get real in deep depth into that kind of stuff. Because that's the success and like, what makes people you know, why is one person? Why can one person go and play division one basketball and one can or why can one do this? And it's yeah, I mean, that stuff always fascinates me.
Mike: Okay. So probably a good transition point to talk about [inaudible 41:05] athletes in recruitment. Correct?
[00:41:08] Andrew Petcash: Correct.
Mike: Okay, can you tell us about what the company is all about? What the businesses and how it works?
[00:41:13] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, for sure. So James, is an original founder, and then he brought me in like, pretty soon after his idea stem. And so there's like me and two other guys on the founding team. And our whole basis is that recruiting is flawed, and it's all like service based. And they go, you know, they tried to get colleges to pay and our kids to pay. And we were like, Wait, okay, there's all these social media platforms that kids use all the time. And dating is the same psychology as recruiting you know, there's two sides, and they both need the tango. And there's a third party, which is like the parent, the high school coach, the intermediate, let's bring them all together in one place. Give them all the social tools, and give it to them for free. And on a business model side is we need to make money, you know, we just run advertisements, if the products free, you are the product kind of motto, I'm sure you've heard that before. It's like a Twitter, Instagram, whatever. And give everyone the tool. So the liaison which say it's a private trainer, or a recruiting service project, or even someone like yourself. You can help the athlete get recruited by facilitating connection. But you can also build your own business because it's all the athletes in one place, the college coach. So we like to say and right now we're just in football, but we'll be in all 34 Sports men's and women's here in the next 12 months. But we like to say there's two types of coaches, but one that's fired and the one that's going to be fired. So enables them the chance to network and build their resume as well, on top of that recruit, find their ideal player, because the player plugs in, hey, you know, I'm 64”, I'm a 200 pound quarterback from Alaska. And the coach goes, Hey, I'm looking for guys over 6’2”, that are quarterbacks from Alaska, and they can see all those players. And quickly because of the tinder model in 30 seconds, they can tell athletically this kid good enough or not. Swipe left or right or clicking and see everything about the kid. So we're like, hey, let's do this for free. Let's get to everyone. We've created some real rumble in some of the space because there's been no real advancements, and these companies have just been raking in money from both sides, coaches and athletes. And we're like, hey, let's disrupt this. Let's help everyone, like everyone in the process and give it to them for free. And so, we're a little over four months in 50,000 Plus users 250 coaches, a whole bunch of liaisons. And yeah, I mean, the goals now is to get every sport and start raising our “Series A” here in a couple months and we're gonna try to get one of our models is get pro athletes like top pro athletes with big followings. Big name image and likenesses. Get them to invest. So now it's like, hey, you know, Jenny Finch softball or promote this, or you know, Bryson to Shambo golf, like people like that LeBron skating.
Mike: Yeah
[00:44:14] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, we'll see. I mean, it's a journey, and we're looking forward to it.
Mike: A lot of fun. But what you described actually, sort of the way you described it hit me, right. Everything is a relationship business. And so like, the point you made about coaches that are fired, and the ones that are going to be fired is a perfect metaphor. For what it is to say, like, hey, if I'm a coach, and I'm thinking about this the right way like, maybe I got fired, and I'm gonna go get another job, but that kid, I still have a relationship with that player. I want them to come with me. So it's not so much the school and you hear this a lot. Recruiting isn't necessarily about the destination. It's about the person who recruited you. So when a coach gets fired, what happens? Kids transfer, because they trusted Coach. And so having these relationships and starting to build them in this way, in this sort of platform is really intriguing. What the functionality of the platform meeting like, what can a player or coach or parent, what are they the school will get populate in there? Like what kind of data they put in there?
[00:45:19] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, they can put everything. I mean, we want as much visibility as possible. So traditionally, you know, you upload your film, and maybe you just write your GPA, but no one really knows, like, hey, you put in a four or five and you lift 250 pounds, but no one really knows. So we've also added in like, you can put a video, you can put a picture to like, prove it as well. I mean, we really think it's like that all in one, we've given the athlete, the coach, and the parent, and anyone else involved. Every tool they need to get through the recruiting process. And as NIO comes, it's only advancing because now kids, I mean, because we developed, it's a platform not a service, you know, say in two years and NIL is legal completely in high school. We can add in functionality for kids to upload their store, or upload their brand or their podcast to it. So we're just trying to like, centralize it, but it's around like the athlete, and recruiting, you know, plays into it. But it's really build your athletic profile.
Mike: Right, that's so cool. I'm so enamored by technology, just in general in terms of the things that we can do and that are possible. Talk about, and one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is because I know NIL is something that you're really into right name, image and likeness for college athletes, which has been a pretty big news, but that, like you made reference, it's also seeping downhill into high school. Can you just talk about what that looks like now?
[00:37:59] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, for sure. So right now, it's like a $500 million market. It's gonna be a couple bill here in a few years. And so obviously, it's always been fun in the pros, comes down to college now. How you can make money off your name, image and likeness, there's actually a lot more. There's been less compliance and was initially thought like, schools, brands, they've been able to do more than they thought was initially possible. And already now, it's like, so New Jersey will be live in here in January 22, and then California is already live. So if you're a California high school athlete, you can already I mean, Mikey Williams to the basketball player, he's already signed like a million dollar deal. And this is the top 1%, not even top 100 kids, and maybe just basketball and football, and then a few other, but it's like, it gives you the chance. I mean, in my hometown, everyone knew who I was, if I ran a camp, I would be able to make money off of it. And I'm saying when I was in high school, when before you couldn't do that, so that's huge. So now you're promoting like giving back to the community, helping develop and yeah, you're getting money, but you're also building good habits. And you're also learning, Hey, okay, I'm gonna be a college athlete, let's learn how to start a podcast, or let's learn how to run an ecommerce Store. Okay, well, if one or the other doesn't work out, and I'm talking about being a college athlete doesn't work out, you've learned those skills that it takes to build something. And that's better for society, because now we have more entrepreneurs and builders and innovators. When then if that side doesn't work out, you still learn and your college athlete, hopefully you got a scholarship and there's still going to be other NIL opportunities. And so I just see it as a huge benefit, and it's overdue. I hope I answered your question, there are a few directions.
Mike: Yeah, I appreciate the examples help, like the Mikey Williams example. That if you're a high school player, that's a top level recruit, and you have a following, then there's an opportunity, there's a market opportunity for that person to take advantage of their image and likeness at the same time. Like, at the end of the day, if you're a high school athlete, and you've got a big following because so many, it's social media is omnipresent. If you have a big following, like that's an opportunity for any company to promote their good or service. And I think that, it is long overdue in the sense that like, hey, listen, should athletes be paid by the schools? We can debate that all day long. That's fine, but they should not athletes should not be in my personal opinion. Like, this is not a professional opinion. Personally my opinion is, if you're an 18 year old kid, and you're not an athlete in college, you can go start a business and no one's going to tell you to do it otherwise. So why shouldn't you be able to do that as an athlete, it's overly restrictive. And it's not fair frankly. And, you know, it's a huge opportunity for so many young people to not only earn a living, and there's I'm sure there's unintended consequences to it, and I don't want to go down that road. But at the end of the day, they're learning to your point. They're learning how to be Come entrepreneurs, how to become business owners, how to build their own brand. And like, that's not something that when I was in college 25 years ago, like that wasn't even like a twinkle in anybody's eye. And so like we've come so far, and why stifle the opportunity?
[00:50:16] Andrew Petcash: Exactly. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. It's long overdue. I mean, I honestly, I mean, it wasn't a really benefited me in college that much. I don't know, maybe it would have. But I mean, you will get Manziel, like Johnny Manziel, Reggie Bush, Vince Young, like these guys. I mean, come on [inaudible 50:33]. I mean, he lost everything. Reggie Bush lost everything because they use their name image and likeness. I mean, Zion Williamson, yeah, we don't want to go down unintended consequences. But I mean, there's going to be kids in college making millions of dollars. Like, that's life changing if they can learn how to use it, and that's why the education is a piece of it. And making sure they have the right people in their circle, because there are going to be like vultures that come in and say, Hey, there's this kid, let me let's get a piece of the pie is there's going to be, you know, kids that make 5 million, but then they don't go pro. And now they're like, Okay, what do I do? I was talking about losing your identity earlier. I was not just a top college athlete, I was also making way more money than I'll probably ever make in my life. You know, I'm saying, so yeah overall, it's all good. I'd say 99% of it's good.
Mike: Yeah, and that's the reason why I wanted to talk about it here in this space, because I think there is an education, there's a learning curve for parents. Now it's undeniably a part of the equation. Especially if your kid plays in a revenue generating sport of football or basketball. They're getting recruited, and now there's this whole other element of, okay, we know that they can use name image and likeness, like how is that going to affect my child for the good? And maybe for the not so good? But we need to understand it because we're still responsible for these young people.
[00:52:01] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I mean, there's a big loop is to begin with. Most people don't even understand college recruiting, and I'm talking more specifically parents in general, it's not you throw NIL in and now they're trying to worry about NIL. But like, you got to learn called recruiting first. Because if you're not even good enough, you're really not going to maximize on it. But at the same time, that I mean, they taught together. And my thing is like, if you're a high school athlete, you don't have to be crazy, but you know, start a social media, just post you playing, read up on it a little bit, just get a feel for it, understand it. And then, but worry more about getting recruited and it will work out. But yeah, the education is a piece. But to be honest, I mean, it's kind of an impossible hurdle, because recruiting has never been figured out. So now I had this on. It's just like, if you want to learn about NIL and you want, like you'll learn, but it's gonna be too hard because it's not enough to be taught in the schools as well.
Mike: I appreciate you saying that, because it's almost like the master class and recruiting like NIL, and I always like sort of like, you know, recruiting three on one, whereas recruiting one on one hasn't even been passed yet. And I am by no means an expert in recruiting. I've learned a ton by virtue of working in high school for a couple of years, and then ultimately working with high school athletes. I'm learning about recruiting. And I can promise you that parents do not understand it very well at all. And it is a crapshoot, right. And how do we do it? What do we do? How do we make it efficient? And so I'll go back to what you're doing at [inaudible 53:45], which is you're creating an efficient marketplace for buyers and sellers, you know, if you want to put it that way. And so you could see like, what is the school offering like, what do we have to offer? Like, what's a good match versus like, I think I want to be at school ABC. But there's nothing about school ABC, that's remotely interesting. Except for maybe like, I know, they're a good academic school, but then you have to go live there for four years and you don't know anything about it. So why are you going there? So I think being able to educate on the recruiting process is like the first step.
[00:54:19] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, to your point there kind of about air. And what we're trying to do in facilitating that is, we do believe it's going to be bigger internationally. Because those kids will do anything to get over here and play. It's just the reality of the situation. Especially like, even in Asia, the Asian market, like I would love to come play basketball and they value education. So they'll upload all their film, they'll do exactly what you need to do on the platform to increase your chances. While in America, it's just kind of, you know, we have this kind of stale, you know, that's why I talked about reading books and we were like, I'll get recruited maybe, then go upload your grades. And then we're giving you something to help you. But that's the point of like facilitating and all when I went through it, I had no clue what I was doing, and I made mistakes. But I mean, you have to go turn in your transcript, we have to do this. So we have the app that has everything in it kind of like shows you and then there's people connected your parents that recruiting service that can help you and you're like, hey, you should put this here. We'll make it easier for everyone, and which will make better decisions. Everyone will make better decisions. So that's the goal. Make it easier, faster and more efficient. It's a process because it's a broken system and people don't know what's going on, but we'll get there.
Mike: But what you've highlighted too is there's a motivation. The motivation for international athletes who want to get to the US is much, much greater. Because, there's a desire, there's a desperation in some in some respects, and they're willing to do the work and put in the time and effort. I think there is a misconception. I mean, in the US about hail find me. I personally, I do not believe that. Yes, will they find you if you are like the top 001%, five star football recruit? Yeah, sure, football. But if you're a great player in a secondary sport that doesn't generate revenue, you may not get found. And there's definitely this idea that, oh yeah, they're gonna come get me. And I'm like, no, and even if they do find you, is that where you want to be? Where do you want to be? Like, what's important to you? And I think a lot of people don't think about what they value, and like prioritize and say like, this is what I want, and I'm gonna go get it, I'm gonna go sell myself, right? Because if you're in sales, which I know you are at some level, and I can take on any client. I'll take the client, but it's not a fit for me. I want to be with these people, because they fit my model, and I'm going to go find them. Whereas I think people don't have that mentality, because they don't like, they don't want to do the work, or they don't want to get rejected, all those things.
[00:57:00] Andrew Petcash: And it's instant gratification to like, hey, I want that offer. I want to post it. Are you willing to post every day for six months? Are you willing to go on air and reach out to all the coaches? Are you willing to swipe left or right? Like, are you willing to put in the work? And that's kind of what we mill is the market is the market. And that's why we're a platform, not a service. So like, if you put in the work, and you do your thing like, obviously, in the classroom, on the field, court, whatever and then on our app, you'll be found by coaches, they'll find you. But if you don't, it's like a job resume. If you don't fill it out, and you don't get a letter of recommendation, you're probably not going to get the job. It's the same thing with our app. If you give it everything you have, full effort, it will be easier and so that's the basis.
Mike: What do they say garbage in, garbage out? You gotta put what you get what you put in. And so just a couple more questions. And then this one's gonna be a little bit self-indulgent and self-serving. But I'm, I'm curious, personally, you talked about going after your “Series A” funding, how involved are you in that side of things in terms of securing investors? Are you involved?
[00:58:09] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I'm involved to some level. I wasn't really in the seed, and we're not going to go do that here for a little bit. But a lot of it is like kind of, you know, setting up the connections and the relationships. Like we mentioned earlier, planting the seeds, bringing it all back to the ecosystem. Hey, okay, we can bring you this you know, but we would love your money or you know, I mean, like, we love your faith in us and your resources and that's ultimately, like I've learned. I think there's no better way to go into business how I've gone in our company, and we're all young guys. So we're learning, which can be scary, but I think we're learning fast, or we're going to be fine. But it's like, Hey, I mean, I've known this. It's all relationships networking. And it's like, I mean, we say play chess, not checkers. So, it's funny when you see stuff go on in big companies or something going on, you know, there's connections, there's a piece and I've learned that from obviously, what we're doing here.
Mike: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I would think too, like finding the right investor or investors is critical to understand. I mean, listen, at some level, you're a technology company, but just finding a Tech investor who doesn't really understand the space, it's gonna be as productive as finding people who really understand the space not only from kind of an operational standpoint, but also understanding. They have a network out there to get eyeballs on to what you're doing. I mean, it's to me, its fun. I've always been in business. I've worked with startups for part of my career. And I'm just fascinated by like, what is the right time to go out and get that funding? Who are the funders gonna be like, how much actually do we give up for the prospect of growing this business? It's really fascinating, and I just I think it's really cool.
[01:00:06] Andrew Petcash: Something I think's really fascinating to cut you off there. But now, I mean, you can even sell, you can basically loan your data and not give up any equity in companies.
Mike: Tell me more.
[01:00:19] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, it's crazy. So I mean, part of it is, we own a lot of data. Obviously, we own you know, who these athletes are, what they like, obviously, for everyone involved. And you can leverage that data to get capital, which all of us were blown away, and no one's really done it. And it's like Apple, Google, Amazon own 96%, or something crazy of this. So we're all fighting over this little 4%. Which is a lot though, which is crazy to think about. But not to go completely off topic. But web three, not sure if you're familiar with it, it's gonna transform the game. And obviously, Blockchain and FTEs starting. I tried too, like I said, I'm have habits and I try to build stuff. Part of my like, one hour a day is like studying this stuff and trying to learn it, you know, and it's a Blockchain and web three is gonna be crazy. Because web two is like, the companies and data owns you. But web three is gonna be more like we own everything, like personally. And that's why, I mean, it's gonna take some time to develop and it's a hard concept to grasp. I see your wheels turning.
Mike: I’m turning and I'm thinking about how I'm going to learn about this, because I'm curious now.
[01:01:39] Andrew Petcash: Yeah. So obviously, as a company, we're thinking about that as well. Because this would shift our, if our goal was initially to own data, but it's going to shift a little to web three, how do we handle that? So I think it's all everything we do is we think in the future. And that's how I've always thought, and you know, always try to think big, because everyone else thinks small. So if you think big, it's your greatest advantage. But yeah, I had something else to say. But I got off topic about web three, because it's crazy fascinating that's gonna happen in our lives.
Mike: Yeah. So as to wrap up, I'll ask you one last question. So if there's one thing that you'd want the listeners, whether it's a high school athlete, or their parents were both one thing you'd want them to know, what would be your take away or leave behind?
[01:02:31] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, so we're like, do you want me to go more towards like, the athletic side and stuff or do you want me to just like more personally on that one?
Mike: Whatever you want.
[01:02:42] Andrew Petcash: Yeah. I mean…
Mike: What's the one thing that jumps in your head?
[01:02:44] Andrew Petcash: Well, the first thing that jumps into my head is, obviously I just said think big, everyone thinks small. That's the biggest problem I see in everything these days. And also do your research. Don't listen to everything, like everyone takes the stuff at face value, you gotta like really, you got to research it, you got to understand stuff, thinking in the future, think big, and everything worked out better. My thing has always been you know, you reach to get some bigger and if you fall a little short, you'll still be way ahead from where you are. And so I would say that relating to athletics and kind of what we've been talking about is for your kid and yourself or parent’s kids, you know. Think big think you can go play it. You know, I wanted to play for Pitt basketball really bad. I grew up with all their games to power five school really wanted to I fell a little short. But once I learned what so then that's the next point is like, learn where you're at. Understand that find people that can help you. But also don't listen, because I had people tell me I was D3, D2. And I said no, no, I'm D1. I'm definitely med major. I can definitely played a high academic school. Got that, but I was really shooting for Pitt and I got. So I would say like, think big in everything. There's just too many people that think small. I mean, I know Mike, I know you're thinking bigger there.
Mike: I’m trying.
[01:04:12] Andrew Petcash: So yeah
Mike: I do, I love that. Because I think at the end of the day you have to and I encourage my athletes, you know, that I work with when we talk about that process of like, what do I want to be? Like, don't sell yourself short, because you never know who's on the other end. Meaning, you may think that you're not qualified to play division one, because somebody else told you, get it from the horse's mouth, you don't know what they're looking for. Now, they might tell you no, you're not qualified, but you're not going to know until you know. So go get it and get the information. And rather than being scared of what you're getting to hear, be like, hey, I want to hear it so that I know what to do differently, which is basically what you just described. Find out, figure out what I need to do and keep doing it. So I get to where I want to go versus like, hey, I'm afraid.
[01:05:00] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, and the last thing I'll kind of add is like, based on the research and thinking big, don't just follow the status quo. I've seen that with countless of my friends, and they're unhappy. And I'm not saying like, some of them have great jobs, and they probably make a lot more money than I do right now. But it's because I'm actually, when I'm happy I like what I'm doing every day. I'm building something. And I know to the next point of long term thing, like long term thinking not short term, like delayed gratification, always huge for me and it's hard. Like I said, when we talk about these things, I talk about these things like I do it. I mean, I've struggled with just as much as you do. And just as much as anyone listening probably. But if you get that mindset, I mean, you'll still get over it. So yeah, think big, think long term. Don't follow the status quo, do what you want to do, and you'll be in a good spot. Even one day ahead to 1 year to 10 years, and you'll look back and you'll be like, when I was 18 years old, going to Boston University to play division one basketball thinking I'm everything, I see here now and go I had no clue but I'm a lot farther ahead now and I feel like I'll say the same in a couple years.
Mike: It's an awesome way to end. Thanks for coming on Andrew. I really appreciate it. Hope we can keep talking.
[01:06:18] Andrew Petcash: Yeah, I love it Mike. Well, if the running back one of these times, I can talk all day. I like this stuff. I got to get back to building but at the same time I need that.
Mike: Me too. We're dangerous together. Because this is probably the longest podcast I've had and I can keep going. But I'm going to spare them. Let's do a part two, because I feel like there's a lot of good stuff. Listen, if I get to the point where I'm having guests on again, then my podcast is doing okay too.
[01:06:44] Andrew Petcash: I love it. Yeah, that's the other thing. I want to, I've always been, hey, people that are doing big things like they're never worried about, they're always supportive. They're never gonna hate on someone else doing big things. I love what you're doing and I never, you reciprocated back to me. And I do that to other people. So that's it now, and we'll touch on this in the next one. But when people are hating and saying stuff, it's because they're not doing anything and they get jealous.
Mike: Exactly.
[01:07:08] Andrew Petcash: Yeah
Mike: That’s right. Totally agree.
[01:07:10] Andrew Petcash: Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
Mike: Take care man.
[01:07:14] Andrew Petcash: Thanks. Bye.