What drives former D1 and Olympic swimmer David Karasek to help performers make their dreams come true?
Many athletes have big goals and aspirations. However, it is not as common for those athletes to align their thoughts, feelings, and actions with those dreams. One of the roles of mental performance coaches is to help athletes perform at their optimal level by helping them to develop strategies that bring their actions into alignment with their performance goals.
My guest on this episode, David Karasek, is a former collegiate and Olympic swimmer, who has immersed himself in a career of helping athletes to achieve their dreams. As a mindset coach, David helps his clients connect to a larger purpose in service of reaching their athletic potential.
In Episode 27, David talks about his journey as a competitive youth swimmer in Switzerland to the University of Virginia and ultimately, the 2012 London Olympic games where he set a Swiss record. Further, David shares how his coachabillity has led him to his dream career.
David spoke very candidly about his journey and how he learned humility through the coaching process. He is now passing those lessons to those he serves as a mindset coach.
My suggestion to young athletes is similar to David’s - don’t be afraid to chase big dreams. In chasing those dreams, work hard to be coachable so that you are making to the most of the guidance others share with you.
I want to thank David for his kind generosity and the wisdom he shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can learn more about David on Instagram @davidkarasek and on his website at davidkarasek.com.
You can learn more about The Freshman Foundation on our website at freshmanfoundation.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back soon for Episode 28!
Mike: Hey everyone, this is Michael Huberfounder and CEO of The Freshmen Foundation. You are listening to the freshmen foundation podcast. A podcast specifically about the transition from high school to college athletics. My guest today is David Karasek, Swiss swimming champion, member of the 2012 Swiss Olympic swimming team, former University of Virginia swimmer and founder and CEO of the tribe of athletes. He's a mental performance and mindset coach. David, welcome to the podcast. How are you my friend?
[00:00:32] David Karasek: Thanks for having me Michael. Very good besides what I says Tony, that's been Pin sent here for five days straight Switzerland and Zurich, but I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me on man.
Mike: My pleasure. I think I can say with certainty, you're my first international guest. So, we've crossed another milestone, here on the podcast today. I just really enjoyed the time, we got to talk a little bit before and wanted to have the listeners learn more about your experiences as an athlete, but now also as a coach. So just if you would, you know, could you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
[00:01:06] David Karasek: Yeah, sure. So I guess long story short with because I would love to also like ask you and speak about like the mindset part, but I, you know, I grew up swimming. And I had the pleasure and the opportunity to come to the States to the University of Virginia, and I had a 90% scholarship. And that worked out so beautifully for me, you know, coming with I was 20 years old was, which is caught on the older spectrum for a freshman. But I don't know, I just knew about America, the American Pie movie, like the red cups of blue cups, and I got to the states, and I absolutely loved it. I loved everything about it. And the thing that and I'll tell you a funny story in a second. But the thing that I loved most was, that was all about the team. We don't have that man in Switzerland, when you're swimming, it's an individual sport. And I made a huge difference. All of a sudden, it was about the team. And I'll tell you a funny story. Okay, what happened to me with it was like the third month or so we had a really hard set to swim. And in America, you guys swim in the 25 yards pool, which is about 22 meters. We here in Zurich, we swim in the Olympic pool, which is 50 meters, so it's more than twice as long. So that meant there's a lot more turns in the yard pool. And so we spend this hard asset that was 30 minutes, just pain, because there was no breathing allowed into the turn and out of the turn all that I was struggling enough. 20 minutes, I literally remember it. I was like, fuck this, I'm just gonna breathe and I started like breathing in and out of the turns. And we finished the set, and the coach got up there. And he's like, Karasek came all the way from Switzerland. And he thinks he's something better than you. So he's going to get out. And you guys are going to repeat the set. He's gonna watch you how Americans do it. And then, you know, I felt so bad. And I had to get up on the polecat. And I had to stand there and watch them do the whole set again, 30 minutes. And you know what they coach, he kept walking back and forth. He's like, see, that's how you do it. You [Inaudible 03:01] this how you do it? And I really like a light bulb went off for me, because I mean, he meant the best, you know, he said, I'm not gonna only make you better swimmers. I'm gonna make you man. And he did that he I mean, I have nothing but respect and gratitude and everything. But that opened my mind. That was a light bulb.
Mike: What was the so tell me, what was the aftermath of that with your teammates? How did they react?
[00:03:25] David Karasek:
Man, they took it easy. It's like, as long as I got the learning out of it that take it easy. Just don't do it again, it's like, of course, we're not going to do it again. You know, and but that light bulb, it had to happen. And that went off. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. People hold you accountable here. There's like, you know, you're doing something, it's for something or someone bigger than you it's literally 70 people on the team that are doing the same thing. And you can't just you know, you have to kind of dance in line. And that was for me, that was a new concept.
Mike: You know? Absolutely. So how does that tell me how that contrasts to you growing up in Switzerland becoming sort of learning how to become a swimmer, and, you know, competing as you're going up, you know, through your teenage years? How what was the difference there?
[00:04:07] David Karasek: I wasn't like, at the time, I wasn't really like aware of what was going on that like it was just on autopilot. And I was lucky that I had good guidance, but I didn't really like choose what I really wanted to do a it was you know, I wasn't aware of that. It could be better. It's was just, I was just going through life on autopilot because I didn't know better. And I think that's, you know, there's some mistakes we all have to make. And that's what I would love like to speak to you about is like, there's a lot of things, a lot of mistakes we have to make to see to touch something hard that we know it's hard. Well, there's some things that we can avoid by looking at like what other people did before us by having really good guidance, like World Class guidance, for example. And you can just like avoid a lot of the trouble and one of them would be to just know what you really want and I never knew that.
Mike: Yeah. It's actually it's pretty interesting and somewhat ironic in the sense that I feel like American athletes, particularly the ones I work with, who are younger, a little bit younger, are super sensitive to making mistakes, and have a really hard time dealing with it. And they always want to be perfect. And there's a rare, it's rare that a lot of the young athletes that I work with had that kind of growth mindset of like, hey, I made a mistake, but let me take the information and grow from it. It's more like I beat myself up, because they made a mistake. And it's something I really have to work hard at in terms of finding ways to shift, help them shift their thinking about, hey, it’s okay, if you made a mistake, but what are you going to do with it, similar to what you described?
[00:05:45] David Karasek: And where what do you think where does that come from? Where's that like, and I agree with you, if you're like, let's say I've worked with an 11 year old with 2 actually tennis players, if the emphasis is on winning, instead of having fun in learning. The question is, where does it come from? Because it's a good question, right? It's like, why does the child pick it up? Why is it so important to win? And why isn't it important to learn and, and have fun? What do you think?
Mike: Listen, I had my unfortunately, my theory is that it comes from the adults, you know, whether its coaches and parents, I think there's just an over emphasis on the performance. And I think a lot of it frankly, too, you know, if I'm being fair to the, to those adults, I think it's a lack of knowledge about what it is that actually motivates the athletes, right? What motivates young athletes and anybody, even adults is feeling good about what you're doing, right? Feeling competent, right? Feeling like you have control over the situation, feel like you're with your friends and having you're with people you can trust. When you're being criticized constantly, we feel like someone's telling you what to do, or you can't make your mistakes without fear of being punished or you're constantly kind of operating on punishment and reward. Yeah, you know, it leads to burnout, it leads to disenchantment. And I just don't think that there's, I think there's a lack of awareness. Because I think that's the way that we were coached growing up, I'm a little older than you, but we're roughly the same age, I believe, you know, it was always like, hey, can make a mistake, it wasn't like, hey, just go have a good time. You know, it was like, this is the way my coaches coach me. So I'm not going to pass it on to you, because they were tough on me. And listen, I'm all for tough coaching, right? But there has to be a reason for the tough coaching, there has to be a method to the madness. And there also has to be a soft side to say, Hey, I'm hard on you, because I believe in you, and I want you to be better. Versus like, hey, if you're, if you make a mistake, I'm going to pull you out and you're never going back in because you're threatening me as a coach, you know, so it's a constantly conversation I'm having with athletes and parents and coaches about how do we talk to kids?
[00:07:55] David Karasek: Yeah, that's cool. And it's cool that if the athlete say the kid or the teen is in the middle, right has a dream, and it's so nice to align around that dream and to support as well as we can. And that I agree, you know, it doesn't make anybody bad for not knowing this knowledge. But my whole thing is if especially if parents, that's so cool, where they're like, oh you know, what is that guy? What, like, there's better ways to do it. Oh, let me hear about it. Like, I want to explore it. And then if you can then build the dream team around that. That's when stuff really happens. And, and I always, you know, one of the quotes is, would you rather be right? Or happy one of my favorites? And I mean, you know, right? And how true is it?
Mike: I try to live by it, because at the end of the day, you know, being right doesn't do you any good. If you're miserable, right. And it's probably going to make you perform worse, because you're under the pressure of if I do something wrong, this is going to happen, and I can't be free. I think one of the biggest struggles I see is that it's really hard for adults to let kids fall on their face, so to speak, right to take a step back and say, hey, I'm gonna let them figure this out for themselves, and make the mistakes. And even though I want to jump in and help them, I'm gonna force myself to stay back and let them come to me and say, hey, how can you help me? Because everybody wants to control right? And that's the natural instinct of, well, you're failing or you're hurting, I want to fix the problem for you. I know the answer better, because I'm an adult, but maybe that's true in some instances. But if they feel like they don't have control over their own destiny, they're gonna resent you, and they push back and they shut down. And that's just not a recipe for happiness or performance, performance success or anything.
[00:09:42] David Karasek: That's right.And one thing that I want to or your pattern already.
Mike: I do have to [Inaudible 09:46].
[00:09:48] David Karasek: So just what I want to say is to all the parents listening, who's that guy like speaking, you know, I just want to say that we were speaking of peak performing with athletes, but in the end of the day, what I'm realizing is that they're really peak performers in life are our parents. And I mean, like you look with we're talking about peak performance on the field in a game in the water, you know, it's a freaking game. But when you're a parent that is that is appeared for performers, right? So I have a lot of respect, and I'm just, you know, starting to see how, because my best friends are now parents, and, you know, I'm like, Oh, my God, this is I did not know all that how much it takes to be a good parent.
Mike: It's such a hard job. It is. You're right, the consequences of being a parent. I mean, blow away the idea that it's important to be good at a sport, right? If you think about it, raising a good person to do the right things and be happy and healthy. And, you know, it is really hard. And I try to listen, as a parent, I try to really be compassionate for other parents, because I listen, I go through those moments to where, you know, I want to lose my I lose my temper, or I get emotional. Now I try not to get emotional about performance. I think I'm pretty good about that. Because I understand the difference. But if my children make bad choices in life, about how they treat other people, or how they treat themselves, yeah, I'll lose my call. And I have to realize too, at the same time, it's the same idea, hey, they're gonna make mistakes in their life. And I'm not always going to be there. So the faster I can get comfortable with that, the better off I'm going to be and the better off they're going to be. But it's definitely not easy. So tell me about your family. I don't know much about your background. What was it like growing up in Switzerland?
[00:11:34] David Karasek: Yeah, so I have a younger brother two years younger, I'm 33. He's 31 and my sister's 29. And so we're like two years apart. And my parents, they took us to a lot of different sports, and I never pressured us much. They were like, motivating, it's like, on a Saturday morning, you know, get your ass up, and let's go. But it's not like they didn't force us to do anything. Took us a different sports, which was really nice, because we could choose what we like then for me what happened was my father was a swimmer. So we all liked it. And I also played tennis. With tennis, I would throw it a racket around when I was losing. And my parents, I guess they just figured at that age, it's just better if he goes, you know, more often to swimming. And that's what happened. And, but we had the choice. We were never like, forced, you know, there's other people I remember in my club, they got money for every practice they went to from their parents. And, you know, it's very short lived. And we didn't have that I really enjoyed doing that. I didn't, I wasn't, I actually had to move the club once because my coach when I was maybe 12 said, I had to train every day. And I didn't want to do that. And they kicked me out. So and then, you know, I developed later when I was quite like, I got faster was like 17, 18, which is kind a quite late. But you know, doesn't matter if you can swim till I swim to 25. So it's all good.
Mike: Yeah, I think it's a really important story and an important point in the sense that I think there are a lot of young athletes, particularly here in America, who their training record, regardless of sport, you know, whether it's individual sport team sport has been accelerated, there's a lot of year round sport, you know, whether it's baseball, soccer, basketball, kids are playing all year round. And there's, I think, an element. I mean, I hate to choose this word, because it's pretty strong. But I think there's some truth to it. I think there's an element of shaming, or an element of like, hey, if I don't play all year round, I'm gonna get left behind. And I think then it becomes this kind of like tornado of parents getting caught up in it and be like, well, if my son's not participating are my daughter's not in it all year, they're gonna fall behind. And that's obviously not true, right? People develop at different rates, people grow at different rates. They're cognitively develop at different rates, like, you know, you can be a late bloomer and ultimately be somebody like you who started swimming faster, you know, 17, 18 years old, ultimately, your swim in college, and then in the Olympics. So, like, you know, it doesn't have to be 12 and 13 years old, and show up in the pool in the Olympics at 15, 16. Like some swimmers will, right. But by 25, their shoulders are blown out. And there, you know, they can't swim anymore, because there's so many miles, you know, in the tank. So, what do you think about that?
[00:14:15] David Karasek: Yeah, you could, I mean, I'm with you. You could argue though, on the other side, there is I mean, I'm seeing it with the swimmers here in Switzerland. Wow, they're really good now and in America, obviously, a lot more people in but they are swimming breaststroke now faster than I was swimming freestyle at that age, you know, some of these guys, they can't even run and play soccer anymore because their knees are going so like extols because they're just in the water all the time. You know, their joints are super soft. And because they're just swimming since the age of five. They're just training. And so and then, yeah, but is it healthy? Is it good for the development of the child man It's hard to say right? I mean, look Tiger Woods. I mean, he was, you know, he could play golf before he could walk properly, right? But it was his dad's dream. There's like a really good documentary about it. Like he, there's it says that its dream, it's on his own and look what's happening. It's like, I would love to sit down with Tiger Woods, if he's here in that conversation and just ask him how he's feeling about if you could really generously speak about that. Because, I mean, he, you know, he could argue that in his life, some things are kind of off to right. I don't want to judge but right. It's just yeah, what if you have kids that can't walk him, like hold the ball anymore? Because there's a swimming and yeah, you get that feeling like you get sick, or I'm thrown behind. It's like always pressure, and I just can't see that a kid at that age is actually enjoying that you know.
Mike: I agree with that. That's my bias, my tendency, but at the same time, you know, I think if some young athlete says to me, I really love what I'm doing. And I really want this and no one's making me do it. Then I take it at face value and say, you know what, then go with it, right? Because ultimately, if they understand what they're doing, they understand what their goals are. And they understand the consequences of their decisions that ultimately, they're probably going to be able to live with it. Right? You know, listen, sometimes we all do things that we regret. But if an athlete is telling me, this is what I want, and I'll do whatever it takes, that I'm going to support you in that right, because it's just as bad to say to them, No, you shouldn't do that. I'm, I know better than you. Why? Because I'm an adult. I don't know. I've never been in your shoes. So what was it for me to say, I'll support you however I can. Whether it's with mental coaching, whether it's performance training, or whether it's just with a pat on the back and saying, Hey, do you need something? Right? I really believe in that.
[00:16:46] David Karasek: That is wonderful. If you have a kid that is common to no matter what age and is really you can I mean, if we can feel the enthusiasm. We know like we're training like people are not stupid. We if somebody is passionate about you can see it. And the person in the girl, the boy in the team doesn't matter. And if that's the case, oh, absolutely. Like who are we to say no. Right? I mean, absolutely. But if it's coming from them, if that's what they want. That's like the best case scenario for any coach. It's like, oh, yeah, we got you know, we got somebody that really is ready to put in the work. That's great.
Mike: And can be coached.
[00:17:22] David Karasek: Yeah.
Mike: Yeah,so tell me about how did you tell me about your journey to the University of Virginia, the recruiting process? How were you being recruited by other schools? How did you end up there? What was that like?
[00:17:36] David Karasek: Yeah, so I, when I was 1920, I had a lot of fights with my coach here in Zurich. And now I know, it was all my mistake. But at the time, obviously, I thought he was idiot and so I liked him at the time. So I thought, okay, if I because I like swimming, and I wanted to see how far I can go with it. And I knew America is great for that. And I was like, in the age to go to college. And I already had a year in the university here in Zurich. And I just started looking at the schools. I had a division one swim team, and a good business school. Not because I wanted to study business, so that's what I checked in. And I saw the University of Virginia. I saw Berkeley in California, and I saw Ohio State. And Virginia, it's just, you know, they were like the fastest to answer and all that. And we arranged a recruiting trip, and I went there. And I just loved it. I fell in love. I had a weekend there. And it was absolutely phenomenal. I got back was a short trip because it can't stay long campus, right. I think it's like NCAA rules. And I signed off tonight because I got a 9% scholarship. And that was one of the best decisions I ever made.
Mike: Yeah, I mean listen, it's a great town. In fact, one of my closest friends is much older than you are. But he played basketball there in late 80s, early 90s. And he's taking me there. And it's, it's a great place. I mean, I can't imagine how much fun and how you know how great it was to go to school there. So I'd love to send one of my kids to school there.
[00:19:07] David Karasek: It was a good time. But I think there's a lot of cool schools in America for [Inaudible 19:13] here.
Mike: So what was that like coming to the United States? And obviously, it was a new culture in terms of swimming for a team. Like what was the transition to college like for you?
[00:19:27] David Karasek: Yeah, somy English wasn't that good. And obviously like, it was a bit of a culture shock. And I was, you know, I met a lot of people and Americans are very open to like, you know, talking to new people and in Switzerland, and probably generally in Europe, that people are a bit more closed minded and so on. And we always, I used to also be that way I used to make fun of Americans for being superficial, but I just didn't know better right then I got there. I was like, damn, you can like talk with anybody. That's super cool. You know, maybe you're wearing a hat an Eagles hat and you're having a conversation in the airport. Two hours waiting is over like that. And you never know who you meet. And there's a lot of opportunities in that. Because sometimes you just meet one person that changes your life, or changes your perspective or whatever, or whatever friendship, whatever it is. And now, you know, when I come back, I tell the people about is so superficial, but I choose superficial and striking a conversation and then deciding if I want to take next step or not over not speaking any day of the week. No, so we're just saying that here in Europe, because we don't know better and because we think we're doing it the right way. But I don't think we are. So that was wonderful. You know, I started loving everything about my English improved really fast I was, I was getting good grades on the swimming. I mean, it's just like that everything was done for the team. No more medals for individual performance just points for the team for the college team for UVA swimming. And that. I mean, how I was loving that, you know, there was something more than yourself. By waking up in the morning, six o'clock wasn't so bad anymore. And you know, it was just amazing. I mean, I was, as I said, a happy kid.
Mike: Good. Was there anything about college that was hard for you coming over?
[00:21:12] David Karasek: Man, if I'm really honest, I hate to say it, but like the first half year I was like, homesick a little bit. And I was just really looking forward for Christmas, I could go home. And we actually I told my mom, I missed a flight on purpose. So she would think I come back later and almost miss Christmas. And then I was there just before like, just before she was so happy that I was in the aero plane and I knew my brother was gonna pick me up and I was so anxious. You know what the time doesn't pass, you have like eight hours to fly. And it just it feels like freaking two days, because you're so excited to see your brother. That's what I had. But then after that, it became like better and better.
Mike: Yeah, I think that's typical for anybody who goes away for the first time that homesickness usually goes away as you make more friends and things get more comfortable. But yeah, I remember that first semester of college for myself that it was really, really challenging. You know, you go into a new place, you're in your case far away. And you know, you're making meet new people, and you have all this new stuff thrown at you. But it sounds like it worked out for the best. So how long did you stay in the United States after college?
[00:22:18] David Karasek: I went back a man. It was from Michael that I was there from 2008 to 2012, which was the Olympic cycle. And then actually, in the summer of 2012. I graduated I went back to the to Switzerland, because the games were in London. And we had our swim coach that he was actually swim coach on the US team USA national team, because we had guys being swimming for the US team. So he was in London as well. So it's quite nice to have him there.
Mike: Great. And so tell me about that experience swimming in the Olympics.
[00:22:52] David Karasek: Yeah, man I saw before that race, I mean, I almost shit my pants.
Mike: I could just imagine.
[00:23:01] David Karasek: Because you have like, you know,there's the TV, all that pressure, you seal the big shots. And then you have a lot of cold rooms. Usually there's just one. And there's like three or four because everything has to be on time they check if your logo is right, and they just check everything and make you nervous. And I was sitting there is not feeling so hot, to be honest. I was trying to breathe. And I knew that I was I had not that situation. But I had like nervousness before I dealt with it. And usually when I'm rested, I swim well I knew that. And then I got out there and it was August 1 which was a Swiss national date. And I got out there and I saw we had two tickets. My mom and my sister were there with the Swiss flag which is red and white. You know, like so [Inaudible 23:42]. And I saw them there cheering and then I kind of blacked out and I don't remember anything about the race. But I remember touching guys, I saw my time and sweat the Swiss record on Swiss National Day at the Olympics, which was really nice. Didn't make it into the final but I was happy I there's some cool pictures of me right after going into camera like this with a big smile. I was happy because I swim a personal best time but it was definitely a rollercoaster of emotions. But yeah, something you know, when the emotions are high, it burns itself into your, memory, right?
Mike: That's right, you'll never even know you're blacked out. You'll never forget that experience. So was that like the after the Olympics? Was that sort of the end of your swimming career? Did you move on from there? Did you keep swimming?
[00:24:30] David Karasek: Yeah, I kept swimming for a little while. So we took a good break after the Olympics. You know, like just resting a little bit, travelling a bit, partying a bit and all that and then we started again, because I wasn't sure if I wanted to quit. I actually wanted to go again for another four years and be in final. But I just didn't enjoy it any more in Switzerland. And all it was back to this individual sport. And comparing that to four years at UVA. Like I'm really like not having done was fun. And that thought kept coming and coming when I was swimming in after a few weeks on a Friday afternoon, four o'clock in the afternoon, I we started warming up. And after 10 minutes, I just made a committed decision because it came again. I was like I got out of the pool. I told my coach, I'm done. And I never went back.
Mike: And do you feel like that was the right looking back? Do you feel like that was the best decision you could have made?
[00:25:28] David Karasek: Yeah man, because there are so many other opportunities that open up after that. And, you know, I think if we don't enjoy what we're doing, man, you know, life is too short and I know it's cliché and we all heard it. And but you know, just hear it again. Right? It's a good reminder for you. It's a good reminder for me, like if something comes that you agree, right?
Mike: I completely agree. It is too short. I trust me, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. If I didn't think that life is too short, I'd never would have gotten into this into this field. If I didn't pursue something that I loved as opposed to, you know, working for working a job for money, which I think you might have done at some point to head on, you know, money's great, but is it? What makes us happy? It doesn't not for me, you know, maybe some people but not for me.
[00:26:20] David Karasek: Yeah, the best is you make you do what you love. And you make a shit ton of money. That's like, that's…
Mike: Not quite yet. But we're getting there.
[00:26:31] David Karasek: Exactly.If you can see it in the mind, you can hold in your hand. It's just a matter of time.
Mike: Yep. Well, that that's a good segue. Right? So that's sort of your philosophy, right? As a mindset coach, sort of seeing what you want. And going after, tell me tell me about your philosophy as a mindset coach.
[00:26:49] David Karasek: Yeah man. So what happened to me was, I just got into this topic, because an older guy kind of woke me up to the idea that I know very little, he invited me to a tea here in Zurich, and I was never invited to tea. So I went for a tea, I was intrigued by that. And he started telling me that everything I'm thinking is very subjective. It's not the truth. And I know very little. And then he was saying, he also knows very little, and it's like, no, that's interesting. And I started, you know, reading more about this and started finding out Holy shit, it's true. It's like, there's so much going on here that I cannot see, I cannot hear I cannot touch. And I was just on the assumption that if I can't see it, hear it, smell and taste it, it doesn't really exist. But it's not true. There is so much going on. And I'm confident and I learned about the spiritual world, how everything is connected, how your thoughts and your feelings attract different people opportunities into your life. And so I was woken up to that I did a lot of took a lot of coaching in that. So like I was coached in that. And I started to apply these things like, really quickly, and my life just changed, like beyond what I could have imagined, at the time. And what I found really interesting is that my mentors, always believed in me. And now that I'm seeing how, and even if I when I didn't, by the way, they believed in me, because I'll tell you why. Because they have been where I was before. And they know it's worked for them. They know it's worked for 1000s of others. So for me, it was easy to believe in me. And now that it's working for me when I work with my athletes, I believe in them at times, even when they don't, because I know I've done it many 1000s of others have and so can they and I found that so intraday, changed my life. And then that's all I want to do now, like out of nothing else, but that and I think I'm getting pretty good at it. Because that's all I do. And that's my passion is to how can you make your dreams come true?
Mike: Yeah, just listen, I mean, there's nothing more rewarding than being able to help somebody to do that. Exactly. And I have had the similar experiences in my life, the people who helped me coaches, mentors, whatever you want to call them, helps me get to this point of like, hey, I want to do something differently. And I don't know how to do it myself. So I need your help. And like God's made all the difference for me, if I tried to do it on my own, and thought that I knew everything, I would have just I would have kept getting the same result. And so, I mean, when people ask me, like, do you get coaching? And I say absolutely, because if I don't get coaching myself, then I'm a hypocrite, because I'm trying to help you. And like, even if we're smart, even if we know where to go, you know, we still have emotions that get in the way, when you have somebody helping you through that process and making you feel good about what you're doing and supporting you or giving you advice that maybe you can't give to yourself. Like you need that, and it sounds like that's exactly you know, what you're doing with the people you work with.
[00:29:54] David Karasek: So I have a question, Michael, because while you're saying 100% Now my question is what is Think sets these people apart that say, okay, this is where I am, this is where I want to go. Let me ask, as you said, you ask how to get that, because what you find is that these people here that know, you know how they got there, they actually most of them enjoy helping, they enjoy contributing, they enjoy telling their story. So what's the difference? Because I tell you one thing I know from my mentor when we had a seminar, Bob Proctor's like from the secret, he's kind of kind of thing. What he said he, they had that top sales guy from prudential financials are something from America, they had him there, they have 20,000 salespeople in the company, and had the top guy there, because he got like some kind of award, and he had him on stage. And he asked him, How many of the 20,000 salespeople in your company have invited you to a breakfast or a brunch or lunch and ask you six or more prepared questions on why you're so good at selling so much? Zero. So, you know, there's a paradox that the people that are like, have a lower level of awareness, for some reason they have, they don't often don't ask the people that have a higher level of awareness. And I just want to say lower and higher doesn't mean better or worse, it just means they know a bit more in that field, it doesn't make you a better person. So what sets those guys to have a lower level of awareness, and say, let me ask the guy and the others, they're just like, make all kinds of excuses, and they stay there and they keep progressing at a slower rate. What do you think is the difference?
Mike: I mean, that's a really hard question to answer. I think it has to do it my opinion, right? It's only an opinion, right? Because there's so many things that could impact what you just described, right? To me, I think it's confidence, right? Being confident to know what you don't know. And to ask for help means dropping your ego and saying, hey, like, I don't know everything, and I want to get to where I want to go. And you can help me do that. I think a lot of people want to be right. And they don't want to be happy to go back to what we were talking about before, they would rather be right, because they don't want to show the flaws in their in themselves, right. They're trying to protect themselves from having people see who they really are. And so I guess ultimately, it comes down to a lack of vulnerability or an inability to be vulnerable with themselves. And so a lot of it is just expressing emotion or expressing the way they feel and what they think. And so it's easier just to keep it to themselves and say, hey, I don't want anybody to know what's going on with me. So I'll just keep it to myself. And that keeps them stuck. And that's the way I was personally for most of my life until I got to a point where I couldn't live with myself that way anymore. And I was so desperate for a change that I started to just do a one ad and say, hey, I'll take advice from anybody. Because I don't know shit. You know what I'm saying? And that, that changed my life. But you can't make somebody do that a lot of times, I think it is desperation or I think it's they don't know, people don't know what to do. And so they finally are willing to ask for help versus Hey, you know, like, no one's really born that way, especially in this place in this country people are so I feel like people are so egocentric. You know, and that's not a criticism, I think it's just a fact that they're not willing to ask for help or show that weakness or show that vulnerability. And that hurts them it's not it's ironic in that respect.
[00:33:35] David Karasek:
And I want to say in America is like the coaching market, just looking at the coaching market is a lot bigger than in Europe. I mean, I'm from my experience meet talking to future client is, oh, it's a lot easier in with Americans in like, not for everyone, of course, but on average, because Americans are I mean, they also have these entrepreneurial big events, you know, seminars people go to and Europe it's, it's even tougher, so and but yeah, I really think you know, the fastest way from A to B, is to ask the people that have walked the path before. And when you have obstacles there, what you'll find and is, I think a really beautiful illustration is if you have an obstacle there, it's literally the person that is that be helping you is helping you pull you over the obstacle. So it's actually a lot easier for you, it's starting to pull before you right in front of it. So you can climb like slowly and then you're over it and they slowly down on the other way. That's really what happens. And I think that's what like monitor skills to learn is learn to ask. It is so simple, but that could be to get funding for your sports career. It could be that somebody drives you to practice it could be that you get sports nutrition inputs it gets in the mental aids like anything you want, like good girlfriend or boyfriend, like, anything learn to ask?
Mike: Absolutely. It's so interesting you say that because one of the things I believe is a critical skill for transitioning from high school to college, here in America is just that, right? The ability to ask for help, because you go from being in America, the best player on your team, maybe the best player in your county, the best player in your state, then you go to a, if you go to a division one school, and everybody's like you, everybody was a star, right? And so now you're back at square one of like, hey, I'm just like everybody else; you got two choices, right? You could try to do it yourself or you could try to get that help and use the resources that are at your disposal to say, hey, I know that I'm not the best anymore. And I want to get to here. How am I going to do that? Well, I need that coaching. I need that help. Right? I need the sport psychologist. I need the nutritionist. I need the strength coach, I need the tutor, I need all these people around me to elevate me, because I can't do it on my own. And they know they've been here. But I think a lot of times, we're not wired that way. We just expect it to come to us. Because it's always come to us. Yeah. And you know, that's a hard lesson to learn. Because it's not just coming to you. People aren't just going to show up on your door and say, hey, I want to help you, and [Inaudible 36:25].
[00:36:26] David Karasek: That's right last time, I don't think there's anybody one per two people came to me is like, can you coach me, everybody else is like me initiating. But what you're saying, and that's why you're doing good work with the podcast and kind, you know, getting the message out for people to hear is actually, you know, athletes should know that, that it's going better with a coach, they should know that because they should know if somebody cares if they can trust somebody, and that person cares and wants the best for them and is knowledgeable in their field. It's, you know, they should know that. But as you said, we're not wired for that. And for some reason, we think like the coach in football, that just, that's it, that's the only coach we need. But that's actually the cool thing. Once you're being coached in different areas of life, you'll know the value of it, you know, how much faster you progress, how much more how much happier, and so on, at less struggle, you're learning faster, and then you're going to be become like a lifelong learner in a sense. And that's why you always have a coach and it doesn't always have to be the same. Because it might be that you need that coach for half a year that can help you as you do transition from high school to college. But then it's another one because you've done your job, right? It doesn't have to be you for the rest of the life. But that's why you learn to find your mentors, you learn to attract these people in your life and you learn to ask for the right help at every stage in life for you. Are you having a shitty relationship? Okay, take self-responsibility, look what you can do, don't blame others and go get help. And you do that. And it's like, oh, it worked, cool. Now I want to get physically stronger. So he do the same thing. And you learn to do that, right?
Mike: Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes the hardest relationship to build is the one with your sport coach. Right. And I talk to athletes about this a lot. It's something that I try to emphasize is trying to help them on the build empathy for their coaches, right. If you think about being in high school, your high school coach is probably a teacher, he makes you know, a teacher's salary, he coaches because he loves sports, then you go to college, your coach is a coach, he gets paid probably hundreds of 1000s or millions of dollars, depending on your sport to win games to win meets. Right? And so that form of coaching might be a little bit different, right? And so then it becomes like, well, if you don't perform, I don't want to help you, or it's a different kind of relationship. And so if I go to my coach and ask, hey, for help, they're gonna say, they're gonna think I'm weak, or they're gonna think I'm not ready for this. And so I don't want them to know that I'm struggling because they're going to hold it against me. And they're not going to play me because they think I'm not ready. And so they keep it to themselves. And that makes it even worse. And so I think that that's a big challenge for high school kids go into colleges is that it is a business. And maybe you don't feel like your coach cares about you, because he's only trying to win games, which is probably not true, right. But if you don't have a conversation with him, you're never going to get to know him as a person. Or if you don't take that risk. They're never going to know where you're coming from. And you're just going to get buried and then you're going to internalize it and then it gets harder and harder. And then all those mindset things that we try to work on, no matter what I do as a mental performance coach for that athlete, if he's not getting the feedback that he needs, and I'm not there to help him that work is gonna unravel unless they're just a really mentally tough person. And so, you know, communication is critical with a coach and then I think that's some someplace that we struggle a little bit to face to face communications, walk into the office to say, Coach, I need help, you know.
[00:39:59] David Karasek: Yeah, and that is, I can tell you a short story out a soccer player and he made a bad mistake in. So there was a goal scored for the other team and that lost him the match. And because he did a penalty, right with the hand symbol. And so he felt super bad about that, and was, you know, almost depressed and sad and not feeling good. And, you know, the saying worry is the misuse of imagination. So if we have in our mind, if we don't know what the coaches think of us, if we don't know what the teammates think of us, we try to fill in the blanks. Now when you're in a worrying state, you're going to fill in the blanks with worry, because you're not optimistic in that moment. So you fill in with all the worry, and your imagination goes wild about all this, they're not going to play me anymore. My teammates hate me, they think I'm dying, isn't that right? So what I told him to do is that on that day, I had him call called coach first and tell him that he's working with a sports psychologist now that he's feeling terribly sorry about the mistake that it's really bugging him that he's worried what they think what the teammates think and of himself, and that he wants to make it better never make that mistake again and not is prepared to do anything to get better. Now, when you go to the coach, and the coach hears that was the coach gonna do is like, this is fucking awesome, right? There's a guy who's realized that and it's actually showing strength. Now, same thing, when you go to the teammates, they're not gonna say you're a loser like I could, I would never have done that. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo, he made the biggest mistakes, he was crying on the pitch, but nobody remembers him for that. They remember him for being the best football player ever. So like, you know, like when you hear it from your teammates, and your coaches, what they really think now what you make up with your imagination has gone well, you know what it is, and you have the information. And that's why you have to communicate with the people instead of sitting there and worrying because it's just going to drain you and you're not the best version of yourself when you're worried. And then again, you find that the people are on the same team. They're here to support you. And you wouldn't dismiss a teammate for making a mistake, right?
Mike: Of course, absolutely, that there are two questions I always ask athletes is one would you talk to your teammate the way you talk to yourself? Right? And what's the worst that could happen? Right? Like, what's the worst that, you know, you're gonna have all these scenarios in your head. But if you think about it, what really is the worst thing that's going to happen as a result of this mistake? And I think a lot of times, it almost is like, you're right, like, it's not as bad as I'm making it out to be. But unless you get that outside of yourself outside of your head, a lot of times, there's no amount of rationalization you could do to make yourself stop worrying. And that's why having other people to help is so important right? To normalize it and say, hey, you would never do this to somebody else while you're doing it to yourself. And I think that a lot of times that puts it in perspective, or at least starts building the awareness towards Okay, I did this I do this. How do we make the change? What are some of the things that we could do to change the way I think about these situations? And that's, you know, that's least the way I try to do things with my clients. I mean, what about what about you tell me about who you're working with and what that looks like. And I'm just curious more about, like what your practice looks like right now.
[00:43:25] David Karasek: Yeah man. So it's only professional athletes at the moment, and a lot of tennis players and soccer. Triathlon. Yeah, but a lot of tennis players no swimmers or there's one swimmer now but not one on one yet. So I'm what I do is first thing always is, what do you want? That's the simple question. But what do you really want? Like, what are you what do you really want and then we start working with activating the imagination. Like really I use imagination visualization a lot, because this is something that is for a lot of athletes and people in general, it's dialed down. We all had it as kids, like, you know, you give a kid a broom, and we'll use the broom as a horse. And then you tell it like give me the broom and it will not hear it because it's sitting on a horse, right? So the imagination was wild when we were young, and it's just dial down because what did they do in school, they'll tell you tell you to pay attention to not fantasies if they dream, they slap, you know, so it's dialed down. They always tell you be realistic and be an adult and all that. So we don't really allow ourselves to just close our eyes in imagining what we would really like without knowing how to get there. And so that's like, step number one, we start doing those exercises and every athlete that works with me one on one, is that he or she has to come in 10 to 15 minutes a day to do these exercises that I do as well that I learned from Bob Proctor and William White cloud. Those exercises that reprogram your subconscious why'd that put the belief where it should be? And it's not, like just pause. It's not just affirmations based on bullshit. Its affirmations based on what your heart wants. And that are, these are the good kind of affirmations. I want to if you're if I think I'm ugly, and I'm just going in front of a mirror, say I'm pretty. That doesn't work because the subconscious mind is not stupid. It will say it doesn't believe it. Yeah, exactly. It actually does the opposite. That's right. But if you have affirmations that are based on your heart, like, can I read to you what I wrote three days ago, just my daily exercise 100% I'd love it. Okay, so I we always start like we bring it in presence, right. So I'm so happy and grateful now that we're 1000 coaches strong in the tribe of athletes, and that we serve and work with the world's best football players, fighters and tennis players. Every one of my coaches is a former pro athlete who's worked with me and had so much success with the mental training that this is all he or she wanted to do after her career. We're getting millions of views on our YouTube channel. And it's every athletes dream to be coached by us. I'm travelling around the world to Champions League games, and Grand Slam tournaments and UFC fight nights as a fan, mentor and friend of the world's most inspiring athletes. So you write that down. And you know, I get goose bumps thinking about it now, because it gets that picture up for me. And, and that's what you want to do. You want to like, it doesn't need to take long, but you want to condition yourself to have a picture of your dream to flash in your mind again, and again, like be reminded, have a gold card or something like that, you know, have something that you see multiple times that they put it on your bottle, like put it on your bottle, when you're training, something about believe something, what you really want be reminded of that. And you'll see with a bit of time, not much such a bit of time that repetition will start to pay off, and it'll really change your life.
Mike: I'm curious. So the how do you find the commitment level to be with your athletes to then during, during what you ask them to do?
[00:47:06] David Karasek: But they got to come in? They got they I mean, they pay me a lot of money, right? So they and they know what they're going to be. And I say from the beginning, I don't have them sign anything. Because I've also had days when I didn't do the thing and it still worked, right. But I it's just it's about a routine. And just think how powerful habits are were how destructive habits are. So just think if you and also, it's like if you have a happy to see the positive to focus on the good instead of the worry. That that is literally that is a habit. My mother worries about me when I travel at the age of 33 all the time, because it's a habit, it doesn't make any sense. You could be asking all the empowering questions. What is he learning? What is he doing? Who's he meeting, but she's worried because it's a habit, because she probably had good reason to worry when I was younger. But it's just a habit. So just think if you see the positive if you focus on what's good. And now so you spent all your energy on what you want, and not what you don't want. And that's really that will change your life. Because all we are so powerful. And look, I want you to like look at this, everything that you see around us is recreated that like this pen, it first existed just as a thought as an idea. And with time it moved into physical form. The phone that I'm using here, there's a phone right? Existed in Steve Jobs mind as a thought. And with a bit of time it moved into physical form.
Mike: Right? But how did that happen?
[00:48:41] David Karasek: That happens, because we can create like animals can do that we have these higher faculties as a power that is flowing through us. And when we change our vibration, we move we take different actions and the actions will bring us different results. We change the level of our frequency by going where we want to go in our mind already, and not waiting on this to happen on and then I can do that.
Mike: It's so I think that what I was hoping you would get out what you did is it's because it's a thought, but it's the action that brings the thought to life. Right, but without the thought we'd never would have gotten there. Right. And so like I think about my own existence, and my last five or seven years of my life and how I envisioned my life to be where I wanted my life to be in this world of coaching and helping other people and what I wanted that to be, and it's really coming true, because I envisioned it, but I also because I did write every action and I talk to athletes about this all the time. If you want something, right. You tell me you want to be a professional athlete. Great. I love it, right? It's possible. Well, what are you gonna do, if your actions don't align with that vision, then you're never going to get to where you want to go. And that's okay, because you don't want to do it. But there's also a consequence to that. So if you're not taking those steps to get that vision, you don't really want it that much. And you're or if you do, you're gonna regret one day that you didn't do what you could have done to get you there. I can help point you in that direction, but I cannot make you do it, and I think that that's probably the most challenging thing for me as a coach is to say, hey, I know what you want. And I think I know what I can do to help you get there, and then have somebody be like, I get it, but I don't want to do it and it's very frustrating. But I love the way you present it because there needs to be vision, the imagination does need to turn on. Because all of us whether you're a mother, or you're an athlete, we always default to what, what's going to go wrong, what threatens us what's going to hurt us, you know, we want to protect ourselves. And we don't want to take those risks. Because if we do, we're going to get clubbed. And you're never going to get to where you want to go, if you don't stick your neck out and say, you know what, I might get clubbed. But if I do, what am I going to do with it? Am I going to learn from it and grow from it or am I going to crawl back in the hole and be like, you know, it's easier just not to do anything.
[00:51:08] David Karasek: And you find out, okay, easier, it'll get easier. And you know, by the way, if you if you say like this is frustrating as a coach that what were you can try to focus on this is what I try as well is because it is frustrating when you see somebody who says that he or she wants but doesn't take the step right. But you got to we got to get them emotionally involved because we make decisions with our emotions, because thoughts are the first that's like the origin because we can think whatever we want. But then you got to involve your subconscious mind, because your subconscious mind is running your body. And it's your emotional mind. That's how your emotions make your decisions on and move your body into action. So you want to use the thoughts because you can kind of control that if you're working with somebody, and you know, you have them close out, maybe put the hand on the heart, and start to feel that emotion go there and the mind use the imagination to go there. And then you know how it is if you're getting nervous before a competition, your heart starts to beat faster. It's like your subconscious mind. Even when you do that. I mean, the night before the race, your subconscious cannot differentiate between a real experiences. And just imagine what if you're, if you're going in from 1000 people, and the night before you think about that, you might get nervous, right? Even though there's no threat whatsoever, and you're not speaking until tomorrow. But it's because the imagination is so good about that about the bat about the worry, it's so good. And so imagine if we can take that and make it so good for what we read it on. And we get really emotionally involved in it. And that's the trick. And that's when we're like, okay; I'm going to do this because I really am not just thinking I'm taking action. So that's the link to really bring in the emotion.
Mike: I love it. Well, we only have a couple minutes left, because we got to wrap up here. But just if I can ask you one more question. So if there's any one thing that you would leave the listeners with, or want them to remember from our conversation, what would it be?
[00:53:08] David Karasek:
It would be to have a bigdream. Because that is that number one for me. It's just like, it's to have a big dream, because why else would you want to do anything if you if you don't know why you're doing it, like have a big dream and whatever that is like not, it doesn't have to be world champion in swimming or you know, in, it doesn't matter but a big dream, something that excites and scares you at the same time, something that gives you the opportunity to grow, and to become like a more well-rounded person. Something that really Yeah, exciting, scary, scary at the same time. I think that's what I would do. What about you, man? That's a question. I would love to hear from you as well.
Mike: Yeah, you got me on that one? Well, listen, I think that, you know, for me, I think the one thing I always tried to impart to the athletes I work with, particularly young ones is that, you know, I think they need to understand the power of their decisions. Right, every decision has a consequence. And, you know, I think its okay, to make decisions that aren't ideal, but we've got to learn from them. And I think a lot of times when we make a bad decision, or we say something's wrong, or something's right, it's not that’s not it, it's, am I making a good choice to move me in a positive direction? And if I don't, then what am I going to do to learn from it? I'm just a big believer in decision making. And it's not absolute. And I think that's really hard. When you go back to the conversation of, you know, perfectionism, and is it okay to make a mistake, right? People tiptoe around decisions, because they're afraid they're going to do something wrong rather than saying, hey, what's the positive that's going to come out of this right? Let me go get this and if I fail, so what I'm going to learn from it and I'm going to keep going. That's not a mindset that a lot of a lot of young athletes have, at least in my experience these days. And, you know, I could talk all day about why that is just like we tried to a little bit. So with that, I want to thank you for joining the podcast. Hopefully, we could do it again. Because I think we could probably have gotten another hour.
[00:55:22] David Karasek: You coming onmy man, so when I’m ready.
Mike: I absolutely and I would love to, I think it would be awesome. I love doing this. I love having these conversations, and hopefully they help the people are listening and you know, your energy was awesome, man. It's great to talk to you. I learned a lot from you and…
[00:55:37] David Karasek: Likewise brother, thanks for having me.
Mike: My pleasure. I wish you the best David.
[00:55:42] David Karasek: You too Michael.
Mike: Take care.