How is Phil Darke helping young athletes become leaders on and off the field?
Anyone with children knows that being a sports parent is hard. A very delicate dance takes place between a parent and a child when it comes to athletics. Parents must constantly weigh pushing a young athlete to challenge themselves with the potential consequences of becoming over involved.
My guest on this episode, Phil Darke, is a high school soccer coach, host of the How Soccer Explains Leadership and Coaching Character podcasts, and most importantly, father of five young athletes.
In Episode 31, Phil talks about how he found his purpose by starting with the end in mind and how he coaches young athletes to do the same. We discuss HOW a young person’s identity extends well beyond sports and the importance of parents making the effort to truly understand what makes their children tick.
My suggestion to sports parents is make your best effort to really study your children to understand what is important to them.
I want to thank Phil for his kind generosity and the wisdom he shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can learn more about Phil and his podcast at https://howsoccerexplainsleadership.com. You can contact Phil by email at phil@howsoccerexplainsleadership.com.
To learn more about how mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than AGAINST you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back in two weeks for Episode 32.
[00:00:02] Mike: Hey Phil, how’s it going?
[00:00:04] Phil Darke: It’s going well, it’s going well.
[00:00:06] Mike: It's great to have you here. Thanks for coming on. For those listening, could you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
[00:00:12] Phil Darke: Yeah, so I am a husband of one and a father of five. I have kids ranging from almost 20 down to 10. My wife's amazing as well. And we're both in we're soccer family, my wife played D1. I went to school to play had too much fun just doing intermural. So I did that played 12 different, my claim to fame was I played 12 different intramural sports my last quarter at UC Davis. So that was pretty amazing. Only a two conflicts all semester, which is that I'm very proud of that fact. So yeah, as I said, I've been playing soccer my whole life since I was about four. I coached, I went to law school, and I actually coached soccer while I was there, the first state championship for Christ Presbyterian Academy in Nashville. So that's another thing that I take pride in from a sports standpoint, my life. And then I had the kids and then so basically, as my kids grew, I tried coaching my four year old daughter and I lasted about five minutes, because I didn't have the patience to do that. I commend the youth sports coach at that level, you have a gift that I don't think I have. And I very much admire you. And thank you for doing that. Keep doing it. If you love it, keep doing it. Because man, that's a gift. And do it for other kids, other parents kids because man, if you can do that, and the princess in the castle and all that stuff, whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. It's awesome. And then I started coaching for the clubs that coaching goalkeepers. I was goalkeeper and was able to do that at the once they get to 10, 11, 12, I realized that my sweet spot is honing you know, helping make good things better, right? So honing the players at once they kind of know that they want to play and to be able to take them to that next level. That's what I love doing pretty much everything I do to help people to flourish and make good things better. That's my why whether it's coaching, whether it's coaching organizations, coaching teams, coaching players, that's what I love doing. So that's kind of the short of it. I currently coach High School at Folsom High School here in Northern California, and I'm an assistant coach there. And I'll be helping out with William Jessup University as well next year with their goalkeepers so that's what I do. I also do a few different podcasts and I'm a disc model human behavior coach as well. So that's the short of it very short version of a much longer story. But that's who I am in a nutshell.
[00:02:40] Mike: That's great. A lot of soccer in that family in the background. What about your kids, like what's their level of involvement and soccer sport in general?
[00:02:49] Phil Darke: Yeah, so my oldest just decided to not play after two years at Trinity Western University. She played you know, since she was little to every level rec club, high school, college. Like I said she was hurt most of her career in college. So she just decided, hey, I'm gonna hang up the cleats and very proud of that decision because it's hard. But I have no doubt it's the right decision for her. My son who's just graduating high school is getting ready to go to play JC down in Southern California. He's great player center mid in soccer as well. So they're both soccer players. My middle child has played I think every sport she possibly could have played. She's a middle man, so she's got to do her, you know, pay her own trail. She is, that's what she does done. So she I think she's done gymnastics, volleyball, she tried soccer, she's tried basketball, she tried everything like honestly, dance and she's just, she's a people person. So she's a student government now and that's her. She's loving it and working and doing some other stuff. My youngest two are both soccer players as well my youngest son true to form with the youngest wants to play every sport known demand. So if it has a ball, or if it has any competition, he wants to do it. And that's kind of how I was wired to as I said, the 12 different sports in intramural. So he's kind of, he's my mini me. And but they all love soccer as well, who knows they're my youngest is 10, and then my other daughters 13, who knows what they'll end up doing but they do love soccer. They're playing at a competitive soccer level. And then my youngest, like I said, is playing some other sports. So I hope he keeps up playing other sports because I'm a huge advocate for multiple sports and not specializing, really, I mean, if you can do it, not specializing ever. But focusing on you know, your key sports.
[00:04:43] Mike: I am a big believer in multi-sport participation as well for a lot of reasons. So I think that's a great thing. I wanted to ask you about your daughter. I mean, I have to imagine that her decision to retire from playing soccer at that level. The fact that you were able to do that, like, it sounds like you sort of had a similar experience in college where you decided to sort of retire from that, like, highly competitive level of sport like, did she kind of come to you for any guidance or advice in that situation?
[00:05:19] Phil Darke: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. It was some of them. We've had a, I mean, great relationship. We butt heads a lot, because that's, you know, we reverse similarly wired, so it's gonna happen, but she's always known that I love her and her best interests are what I care about, and I want her to flourish like anybody else. And so the conversations we had, it was always throughout her childhood, she always had kind of this, she never really had, soccer was never her first love, she was really good at it. So when it came time just to look at colleges, she just said, I know, it will help me pay for college, and we don't have a lot of money. So I said, it could literally, you know, you might want to consider it to be a job. You know, and it's fun. It's pretty fun job, it's pretty good gig if you can get paid for it. And so she did, she got, you know, a quarter scholarship to go to college. But when, as she was going, I saw some different things, and I was just supporting and what she wanted to do. And it was her decision through and through from minute one. When the time came, you know, she basically is like, Dad, I really want to stop playing and I said, okay, you know, and she said, well, I want to focus on what I'm passionate about and it's okay. And so I talked to her about that talk through that. And which a dad hearing their daughter say I want to focus on what I'm passionate about was like, music to my ears, because that's what I love. And I knew it wasn't soccer, and that's okay. It wasn't only okay. It was like, you know, that's good that you actually know how many kids that 20 know, like, what they're passionate about, like, it's something I was excited about. And she goes, are you disappointed? And I said, no. I was like, of course not. Like how could I be disappointed in you pursuing what you love? I said in my [inaudible 07:17] that I don't get to see a play anymore. Of course, but my dad was bummed when I stopped playing too. I said, like you just said, I said, remember, I stopped playing too. I get it, I totally get it. You have to both love it and be really good at it to play at that level. And if either of those goes away, then it doesn't work. It is, it's a ton of time, it's a ton of energy. It's a ton of effort. But I said but you know, I love that you are intentionally making a decision that is more it's your life. This is these are life decisions. This is going to be everything you do in life, you're going to have these crossroads where you have to determine, what is the best thing for me to be doing at this moment? And that's a very mature life decision that you just made at 19 years old. I'm super proud of you, you know, like to be able to do that and not worry about what's this person going to think? What's that person gonna think? Because she loves her team. She loves her teammates. She loved to be in a Spartan, she's a Trinity Western, they were the Spartans and the athletes were the Spartans, right. So she loved that. So that was a lot to give up. But she also knew that there was these other things that she absolutely loved to do. So that was something I was super proud of her. We had great conversations through the whole process. And she always knew, you know, as I said, you know, she asked if I was disappointed, but I think she already knew the answer, but I think she wanted to hear it from me. And that was something that as a dad, you know, what more do you want from your kids, but for them to come to you in those hard times in life decisions?
[00:08:55] Mike: Definitely. It's I mean, it sounds like the way she approaches is very mature. And as much as this podcast is about understanding the transition from high school to college and getting ready for that, that's sort of the focus, right? It's just as much about what's that transition going to look like when you leave sport, and it's gonna happen to all of us at some point on some level. And sometimes it's sooner rather than later, and we have to know when the right decision is for us. And so if I go back a bit to you and your decision to sort of leave competitive soccer in college, like sort of what was the driver of that for you when you decided hey, like, you know what, I'm just gonna compete at the intramural level because it fits me better for what I want to accomplish.
[00:09:38] Phil Darke: There are a few things on that. One is you know, I got hurt too. I as a goalkeeper, I hyper extended my elbow. Well, that's pretty important thing to be able to use your hands and arms. So I, that took me out of my sophomore year. But I got up, I healed up and I could play but I wasn't able to play on the team and I realized that, the people weren't like in High School Club, I love my team and I'm a people person. And I realized how important that aspect of the game was for me and my daughter, like I said, a similarly wired difference was she had a team she loved. So it was it was a little bit harder for her. For me, it was pretty easy, because these weren't guys that I thought I want to do life with, so to speak. You know, and that was something that combined with me getting hurt. And then I was, you know, part of eternity, which were some guys that I loved hanging out with love being with a god on some intramural teams that not only a Davis, UC Davis where I went for undergrad, and actually at Vanderbilt as well, the intramural program, it was really competitive. And I got to play flag football, and I got to play soccer, and I got to play softball, and I got to play in or two water polo, whatever, you know, I mean, there was, it was just fun. And it was that joy of playing. Now, in all fairness, school was a lot cheaper back then at a UC school, I was able to go for virtually nothing, basically paying for room and board. But so there was a little bit different in that aspect. But I had highly competitive games that I could get those competitive juices flowing, not have to practice all the time when I, also want to go to law school. So I realize I'm not going to be a professional goalkeeper. It's a lot of time and energy, I wouldn't be able to do all these other things that I want to do. And I definitely have FOMO, I am an outgoing people focused guy. So I'm like, oh, what are all these things I'm going to miss? And it wasn't something that I was looking at going, I absolutely love that. I need that. I need competition, and I need sports and I need, but it actually led into Vanderbilt, I played intramurals during law school, and that was an outlet for me. After law school I played I continued playing sports and now coaching to be able to do that. It's always been something I've wanted to do. But I also realize that the idea of going out and training as much as I needed to train and continually having to go that extra mile. That's not something I wanted to do at that level with soccer, I wanted to do that in other things. And I had in you have to pick and choose. And so once I realized law school was my goal, not pros, it was a no brainer, especially since those intramurals were there and I was able to play at a high level.
[00:12:23] Mike: All right. And that goes back to I think what you were saying before about understanding your why and anything that you do. Why am I doing this? And I think that's a huge question that a lot of young athletes don't answer, or if they do answer it, they may not hear what you know, they might not like the answer they get back from themselves, which is a lot of kids do it because they want the approval from the outside. They want external validation, whether it's a scholarship recognition, from your parents, from social media, friends, wherever it comes from the outside. And ultimately, that's not sustainable. So sometimes kids will stick out the process because they feel like that's what they're supposed to do. But meanwhile, there's all these other competing obligations or competing wants that they're missing out on because sports is a full time job. And they're doing it because they think it's what they're supposed to do.
[00:13:14] Phil Darke: Absolutely, because their parents like I have my daughter, she is disappointed, you know, and some kids don't have that conversation with their parents, they just make assumptions. And they're doing it for somebody else or doing for something else, or that's their identity, their identity is there an athlete, what do I do now? My wife had four knee surgeries in college, and she was D1 four year starter. She played through pain a lot of times, and she went through a minor depression after stopping because that was who she was. And she realized that and that was a huge part of her growth as a human was going through that. I've had other friends who stopped playing and they went through major depression, because that's our identity. If your identity is in sports, that's a problem. Because it will in someday.
[00:14:02] Mike: Absolutely
[00:14:03] Phil Darke: And so to know who you are, to know why you're here on earth? It goes, it has to go beyond sport. It has to, and so that's just something that I encourage every parent, as you're going through this journey to help speak that truth into your kids, that you are more than this sport, you might be the best player on your team. You may be the best player in the country. You may be the top runner, whatever it is, you're more than that. And as a parent, what you say to you, my son said something the other day that was so powerful. He gave me a Father's Day card. He's 10 years old. And I don't know that he knew how powerful it was. But it was my dad loves me because it had a line. And my son says some very goofy things as I said, he's my mini me so he's the goofball. He's the whatever. But he wrote, my dad loves me because I'm his son, and I was like, wow. I have no idea if he knew what he wrote. But most kids, and they just actually at my church, they had a Father's Day video where the kids answer the same question every one of them because I'm funny, because I play sports because I watch sports because I do this stuff with him, whatever. And I was like, wow, that just hit me. But those are the things that his identity, those wires are you loved. Because you're my daddy, because I'm your son. I'm your daughter. That's powerful. But do they, do you send that message to them? Do they know that?
[00:15:40] Mike: That message couldn't, you couldn't say that message louder and clearer. Because I think as somebody who works with young athletes now, mostly high school age, I think a lot of them, one, they have their identity tied up in athletics. And if they don't perform at the highest level, if they're not perfect, then they think they're letting their parents down. And I don't think it's because the parents are saying, like, Hey, you're letting me down. But I do think it's because they get the impression that's what's most important to the parents. And so they internalize it. And then any mistake, any slip up is like, I'm not supposed to do that. And they're super hard on themselves. And I think it's really, it's really upsetting to me, for me to see that because I know parents would never want their kids to feel that way, but I don't think they really understand. That's what's going on with the kids because of a lack of communication or an inability to have that kind of conversation about, hey, you're a person and not just an athlete, and that back and forth. And it sounds like you have that kind of relationship with your kids, which is really, it's amazing.
[00:16:51] Phil Darke: Well, I hope so, you know, I mean, I try and my wife and I both. I mean, we try and I think it helped that. We were high level athletes, and we had different paths even at the highest level, I say highest because for most humans, college is the highest level.
[00:17:05] Phil Darke: That's right one to understand
[00:17:06] Phil Darke: And so we both played there at some point, and she kept playing. And I stopped in to see that neither is right or wrong. And if you never make it to there, that's not right or wrong either. And so, and that's something that and honestly, here's the other thing is, as I've studied, I said it, you know, I train and I've studied disc personalities modeling human behavior. And as I study that, you don't need to know anything about disc except to know the ‘D’ is kind of the outgoing task focused, the ‘I’ is outgoing people focus well. And then the ‘C’ is task and reserved, and ‘S’ is people and reserved. And don't worry about it, except the stent that high ‘D’ personalities are really hard on others and easy on themselves. I’s are easy on everybody. S's are hard on themself, and easy on others. And C's are hard on both others in themselves. And I say that because as you're talking, I was thinking through that, if you have an ‘S’ child, which is 35% of the world, so if you're going to bet on what your kid is, it's probably an ‘S’, if you don't know, now, you'll know if it's a ‘D’, because they're gonna be telling you how to run your house. But it's important to know how your child is wired and to study them, to understand them. Because as you said, even if you're not telling them and saying to them that your performance on the field is important to me, if they're an ‘S’, they're gonna be really hard on themselves. And if they're a ‘C’, they're gonna be really hard on themselves. And so they're going to seem like, you know, in the end, they won't express it well, because they're reserved, introverted, if you, you know, use the Myers Briggs. So they're going to, it's going to be something that you don't know, and you need to speak that again, speak that truth into them regularly. And it's something that is, so it's critical, that if we're not doing that, because I guarantee especially if they're playing at the higher levels, because most coaches at the higher levels are task focused, because they're getting results, and they're getting wins and they're really good trainers. That's most of the coaches, and I don't care what sport you're talking about. If you're at a club or a comp, or whatever you call it level most of them are task focus. So they're not going to be speaking those truths into the lives of those kids. They're about getting results. They're about bottom line, they're about how are we going to get this team to get that win. And so they're there and it's not their job anymore. In new sports, unfortunately, it used to be that character and culture and all that was very valued in a lot of these clubs and different programs. You're not seeing that anymore.
[00:19:53] Mike: No, it's not
[00:19:54] Phil Darke: And now when you find it, you latch on to it and stay there because it's rare, and there are those unicorns out there. But it's not the norm. It's why I spend time coaching and teaching that side of it, the high school team that I have, it's why they keep coming back now where they used to not come back as much as because we're coaching that and teaching that culture side. So those are things that I just, I want to make sure you're hearing that this isn't just something that I'm speaking words here, and this is something that I am absolutely 100% behind. And something that I have seen a huge need for is to study the personalities of our own kids, and the kids were coaching if you coach.
[00:20:39] Mike: Yeah, I agree with that. And as soon as you're going through the kind of what the elements of the disc were, I mean, I'm asked some a classic, some hard on myself, and I'm easy on others. And I've had to learn to be easier on myself and harder on others to kind of balance that out. Because at some point, as a parent or a coach, you've got to hold a kid to account, but at the same time, like if I beat myself up for everything that I don't do, well, it's going to be a really miserable existence. On the flip side as a coach, one of the things I go out of my way to try to teach young people is empathy. And so what you just described about coaches is their task focus, why are they task focused, because it's a job that they get paid for, and they feed their family, with the success that they deliver as a coach, therefore, it's on them to continue to deliver that success, otherwise, they're going to be out of a job. So I say to a kid, listen, there's only 11 spots on the soccer field, there's only nine spots on a baseball field, they get paid to take care of the team and deliver a result. And you're one piece of that. And it doesn't mean that they don't like you or that you know, there's something wrong with you, it just means that it's a hard thing for them to do. And I think that's empathy is just something that a lot of kids just don't know how to put themselves in other people's shoes. And that develops over time, right with cognitive ability and socio economic, associated development and all those things. But it's really hard to say like, you know, what, the coach likes me, it's not their fault, it's just the way it is, or I need to take more responsibility. And that's a really one of the hardest things about coaching, I think is being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and vice versa.
[00:22:17] Phil Darke: Well, especially since most coaches are an ‘S’, right? For an ‘S’, it's a fluent language. Empathy is you're fluent in empathy as an ‘S’ as an ‘I’, it's 33 out of 34 on strength finders for me, and my wife, empathy three, she's a high ‘S’. And it's something that I've had to learn, actually, podcasting has been great for me in the empathy side. Because I've had to listen. And I get to listen, I don't have to write, I get to write and also to see it as I get to listen, I get to know others I get to understand, and I get to seek to understand, you know, you always see seek to understand before you seek to be understood. That's kind of what I thought was Covey or Maxwell one of those guys. But it's so true. SS do it naturally. But like you said, what most people don't understand is ‘S’ has also beat themselves up over things. And SS have to you know, especially in ‘S’ has to be perfect in what you do or it's not good enough. And that's so hard. And if it has an ‘I’, I don't understand that intuitively. It's not how I'm wired. My son who's my mini me, that's not how he's wired. So I can I totally get him. My other son who's an SC, I stroke, I had to learn him. And he's the one who's getting ready to go to junior college. Once I did, I'm able to speak that into him. I wrote him a letter when he graduated, rather than just telling him something. Because I know that's going to speak to him. Not every kid you give a letter to some kids that I got crumple whatever, no big deal.
[00:22:51] Mike: My kids
[00:22:51] Phil Darke: You give a letter to some other kids, and that will mean the world to them. And to know that is important, because you don't want to be discouraged by writing a heartfelt letter and giving it and being like, Oh, thanks. Like, no, no, I like, I spent hours on that thing, you know, but those are things that once we get it, it starts you know, it just helps. Again, I tell people all the time, it's like a decoder ring to help you connect and otherwise, we're guessing. And we're usually getting it wrong.
[00:24:24] Mike: Right. But I think there's a really important distinction between not understanding and trying really hard to understand and or not understanding and not giving a crap absolutely about it. Like I'm the and sort of talk about, like, kind of come back into sport. One of the things I'm really interested in is motivation. Because it's like, well, if I understand you and I can create the conditions for you to motivate yourself by the way I behave or if I take responsibility for my actions, I show you that I care about you because I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong as a Coach, that athletes more likely to engage. If I tell you what to do and say, this is my way of the highway, what's that going to do to the athlete? Most of them are gonna shut down. And that's it, and there's nowhere to go. And then you lose the trust and then it's really hard to come back from that.
[00:25:16] Phil Darke: Absolutely. Now, and I think that that goes at practice, you're not going to get the most out of them in games when you start. I mean, I talk about that all the time in games, when you're barking orders, when you're telling people what to do. When you're you know, you're usually cause them to freeze up. Nothing good happens in a game when you're barking orders or criticizing that just, it just doesn't. Positive affirmation help some, some, it doesn't help at all, some, it just goes in one ear out the other during the games. But most of it actually helps them perform better when you're affirming, and encouraging. And it's not this, you know, you're hearing all the time, like Silent Saturdays, and we don't talk actually that's doing a disservice to the kids. It should be no negative, ever, and that's the thing again, with personalities, coaches, task focus coaches tend to be the ones who are criticizing more, and especially when they're stressed, and especially when it's like the time when they most need to be affirming. They get unhealthy because they get stressed, and then they start being hypercritical, and then it actually causes the team to perform worse. So that's the dirty little secret in a lot of this is that, as coaches, as parents, when we want our kids to perform the best, this quote unquote, soft skills, stuff of understanding each other, and personalities, and communication and conflict resolution helps your team to perform way better, you're going to get more wins when you focus more on this stuff and that's just the reality. And most coaches go I'd rather get heart monitors, or I'd rather get the analysis videos, then do training on this personality stuff, because that's the soft stuff doesn't really help. It will help more than anything else on your team. No question, especially if you don't get it. But that's the hard part is the people that need it the most like anything else. It's like the people that need it the most don't think they need it. And that's, it's just hard. But all that to say I mean, I think that I see it in sports all the time. And I've been able to I've had the pleasure and privilege to be able to coach before I had kids before I was married, been able to play obviously, both sides of it. After I'm married, I've been able to coach my own kids, coach other kids. I started coaching high school with my oldest daughter, who I mentioned earlier, and now I have no kids complain, and be able to do my kids, other people's kids to be able to have these conversations with different. I'm getting ready to do college, which I'm excited about. I'm going to be able to do every level, and have that ability to see as a parent and as a player and as you know, helping advise other friends, making the transition as you're doing from high school to college. And it's so important. It's so critical to be able to understand all these different aspects of the conversation. There's no one size fits all answer to these things. It is absolutely individual case by case. So somebody called me earlier today, in fact, my son's 14, struggling, he's playing calm soccer who's doing this stuff, which team should he go with? And she starts talking about the ECNL. And he's stressed and he's this and he's that and good Saturday, she's saying all this different stuff. I'm not gonna, I'm gonna spare you the details. The point of it is at one point she says, and he went to the school or this team, well, first of all, she says he played high school, and he got a bunch of credit from his coach from the club but he loved High School. And I said, high school, I'm a huge fan of high school. First of all, because there's nothing like playing high school soccer, especially if you get along with the players and your friends. You've grown up with them, nothing like it, especially if you play club against them. Because it's, there's just something about that. But also, he said and he went and tried out for this team, and it wasn't as good. But she he loved the coach and he got his joy back. I said, so no brainer.
[00:28:51] Mike: So there's your answer, right?
[00:28:54] Phil Darke: Exactly. I said, nothing else, honestly matters on that. If you know if there's three teams that that's the case, that's a different story. He's going to end up where he's supposed to be. If he's good enough, you'll be seen. And I found most players that they've gone to that team that they think is the right team for the college, most of those kids burn out because they're doing it for the wrong reasons.
[00:29:21] Mike: Right. One of the big thing that comes up in conversations that I have with anybody in this space is fit, picking a university picking any program, it could be travel club, whatever can be high school, picking something because it's a fit with the people that are going to be around you right? Do you fit with the coaches? Do you fit with the teammates? Do you fit with the culture of the school? All those things, and I think people are asking the wrong questions and a lot of it now is about recognition. How do I get to the biggest name school fast enough and then they do that then they get there and they find out it was a bill of goods or just wasn't what it was sold to them the big. And now you're the one that's left having to deal with that going to work every day at a job. You hate to use your analogy…
[00:30:07] Phil Darke: That's right
[00:30:08] Mike: And you're like, I'm stuck here and I can't get out unless I can transfer or change the situation. And that's a really hard thing for an 18 year old, 19 year old kid to have to work through without having the right tools to succeed.
[00:30:20] Phil Darke: Well, and I went through that. I went to Cal, because I got blinded by the D1 dream. So I get it, I was actually signed up in formally committed to a D3 school. And I was excited to go there probably would have been a great fit for me ironically, given that I'm talking about this all the time. I went to college that's probably why I'm so adamant about it. I went to [inaudible 30:47], not only D1 great soccer school, but top five, top 10, whatever you're looking at rankings, academic school. So it's like a dream.
[00:30:59] Mike: A paper perfect
[00:31:01] Phil Darke: Yes, right. And I was doing well academically. So that wasn't the deal. I just was like, this isn't where I'm supposed to be at all. You know, for a lot of reasons that's neither here nor there for this conversation, except to say I was. I was fortunate that I had a coach that I talked with a Davis that I was able to transfer, because to transfer UCS as a freshman doesn't happen. But I was able to, I get to Davis, and it was a perfect fit for me. It was amazing. And the things that happened because I went to Davis, you know, we'll have coffee one day, and I'll tell you all the cool stories about that. But that's the thing is you don't know what it is that you know where you're supposed to be. But as I said, my son's going to JC that's a, that's a perfect fit for him. He's very fortunate because we're in California. So great, JC is great soccer, he gets to live with my parents. So he's gets to go away, and all but to get to go to school for free, and play really high level soccer. And that's what people don't recognize is there's some JC’s that are better than D1 schools at the sports level. And so if you're going because you want to play D1, there's some D1 schools that will get D3 schools will wipe the floor with them. And AI schools will do so, and that's the reality. And so I just look at it and go, parents, don't put dreams on your kids. Kids don't do dreams for your parents. And don't do dreams because you think it's gonna give you status or give you something else. And in a world of Instagram and Facebook, and I see it all the time, because we're in Folsom, California, which is a great football team. So I'm seeing every day, so and so commit or not commit gets another offer from whatever school, and it happens every day. And so people are seeing that. So they're going, oh, I want that. The fact the matter is, you may, but my guess is you don't want it, and those players may not want it. So to go to Alabama, because they were number one in the country. That's a terrible reason to go to a school.
[00:33:02] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I think you couldn't have done a better job of selling this podcast than I did just by saying that because it's the truth, right. And I think you could talk till you're blue in the face to athletes and parents and say, hey, here is why you shouldn't do it that way. But then until you hear somebody's story, then I went through this, and I loved it. It's so much more powerful. That the fact that you've been through it to say, I made that choice that you're about to make, and it didn't work, and here's why, like, think twice about it, because you need to live those four years, and you have to live with it for the next 40 years. That choice of where you go to college. You want to be happy while you're there, and you want to be happy that you were there when you leave. And I think that that's something that just people struggle with. So it's a really important message I think. So you mentioned the podcast, tell me about what your podcast what's the name of it, what's it all about and, and what you talk about?
[00:33:59] Phil Darke: Yeah, so I have a couple of podcasts that I think your audience would enjoy. One is called, how soccer explains leadership? Now, the beauty of it is, yes, it's focused on soccer. But it's really focused on leadership. We use it, we use the game to teach leadership principles. I've also interviewed a basketball coach. I've also interviewed a lacrosse coach. I've interviewed a guy who refereed field hockey and basketball and umpired softball, so I'm not exclusive to soccer because all these sports teach the principles that we want to teach using it as a vehicle to teach leadership. So really, how we can learn from the game because when we talked about this, all that I'm talking about here today is again, why I think we're losing these leadership principles in sports because we're so focused on the wrong thing, which is college, or whatever status or to say your kid plays calm or whatever it is. And because most of the coaches are task focused, we're losing these incredible life and leadership lessons from the game and so I'm hoping that if the coaches aren't teaching it, parents can listen to it with their kids on the way home from games or the way to games or just gone wherever, they can listen to themselves and be able to have conversations with their kids about, hey, here's some lessons we can learn from this, that you can learn in life, even the recruiting process, to learn interview skills, to learn how to put yourself out there, to learn how to write a resume, to learn how to write a cover letter, to learn how to connect with people, these are incredible things. And if we're just using it to get to a school, we're wasting massive opportunity for our kids, to let your kids do it. Let your kids make the video. Let your kids wear them. If they didn't want to do a video, they don't want to do that. They don't love it enough.
[00:35:41] Mike: Exactly
[00:35:42] Phil Darke: So those are things, lessons that's what we talk about on that podcast. I also do coaching character podcast. So with a friend of mine who's who played in the NFL for a year, he was San Diego State, quarterback and punter, and he played back in the day he's a bit older than I am. And he'll appreciate this at a bit. He's quite a bit older. But he got, because of that he's got a lot more wisdom than I do. And always, and so but we talk about kind of the opposite direction. We take the leadership principles from life, and that we've learned integrity, character, all these things, and how we can bring those to your coaching. So if you're a coach, give practical tools and tips and ways that you can actually use these things in, in your game coaching in your training in how you're interacting with your with your students, and your kids or wherever you're coaching at whatever level. So these literally, I mean, I've interviewed on how soccer explains leadership. I've interviewed coaches, I've interviewed players, you know, former players, current players, owners of clubs, coaches at all levels and my co-host is Paul Jobson, who's the Baylor women's soccer coach. And mazing amazing, dude, love that guy. So yeah, just having a blast doing it, love it. As I said, we also do training, we're building the course called ‘coaching the bigger game’. So it's a lot of these different principles that we're talking about. So for coaches who want to really learn the character side, and understand the culture and starts with always, where should self-leadership. So that's what I do, as I said, my why's to help others flourish and to make good things better. So I'd love to be able to help anybody that wants to if you want to, you know, check out the podcast script, its great place to start.
[00:37:25] Mike: What's the most interesting thing that you've heard from one of your guests on the podcast, or the most interesting thing that you've learned in your time podcast?
[00:37:34] Phil Darke: Oh man, well, the podcast I didn't mention, I've actually done 170 interviews. So I'm think orphan, it's if you're into, you know, orphan vulnerable kids and helping others around the world, that's what that podcast is about. There's a ton of interesting thing man, that's an unfair question. It's like saying, I'll…
[00:37:51] Mike: Pick one
[00:37:55] Phil Darke: You know, I'm actually gonna say something from the think orphan podcast, which Peter Greer have interviewed him three times, if you don't know who he is, he's the Head of Hope International. It's actually in your neck of the woods at Lancaster, Pennsylvania was where he's based. And Peter talked about self-leadership, talks about really the idea of self-care and knowing your why writing your eulogy, something I've talked a lot about, start with the end in mind. So really, and I actually just did my, we call in the offseason talks that I did, I did a quick blurb on this. It's not your wide by starting with the end in mind. And I learned that through Michael Hyatt has a book called ‘living forward’ as well. So it's in there too. But to take the time, and I did this, I spent three days just really working through writing my eulogy, writing my life accounts, creating mission statement, creating, you know, really priorities, which is so great to be able to go back to because when you're trying to filter in your life, whether to say yes to something, what to say no to? And there's a millions of things we could say yes to in life? And how do we know? What are the things that because there's a lot of good things that are in that list. But there are things that are good things that you need to say no to that I need to say no to. That's really hard to do. But when you have these filters to be able to use, it makes it a whole lot easier to be able to say no to things. And so there's a lot of opportunities that come my way. And I know your way as well. And to be able to no, nope. If I'm not, if I'm not helping others to flourish and make good things better. Now, that's a pretty still pretty broad. But when I start going through this, then go into the life accounts and the priorities and understand that these are the order that it goes and if it's not, you know, my family of some my wife and my kids and my kids know that my priority over them is my wife. Now, I love them as much as a dad can love a kid, but it's a different relationship. So when they mistreat her, don't treat my wife that way. You know, they get what that means, right? So to know that some people will think, wow, I'm not gonna listen to you anymore. You think your wife's more important than your kids? But no, it's just a different relationship. And they need to know that and you know, I'll be they launch, you know, hopefully my wife never launch. So anyway, all that to say that that's probably I mean there's so many things and different people have said different things. I know that John that one interview on how soccer explains leadership, actually two interviews that I would say, it's funny, I laugh at this because all of them are great, don't get me wrong. But the two that I tend to point to more than any are John Yeager, who wrote a book, he's also in your neck of the woods must be your area there, they're producing these people. But he was a lacrosse coach. And he wrote a book called ‘the coaching zone’, next level leadership in sports and just a great man who gets it. And so a lot of stuff in that interview that he talked about, one of the things he talked about was the idea of polarities, coaching the polarities, and understanding the differences, these things that are seeming paradoxes that we need to embrace. And so that was one of those things that I would, you know, encourage people to check that out. But again, he was a lacrosse coach, he had a story there that is worth the price of admission, so which is free by the way, but it's still it'd be worth it, if it we charge 10 bucks. And then Cory close, who's the UCLA women's basketball coach, and she was able to mentor or be mentored by John Wooden for 15 years. So hearing her just stories and just, she knows her why she talked about that very well. And just she loves well, and she leads well, and so honestly, I don't even need specifics on those ones, go check those out. If you're listening to this, those are things that you really be able to glean stuff from. But I think the one thing that really has stuck with me that I probably talk more and more about is, is that idea and that and actually the one thing that Corey did say that is really good for all leaders, is she has two props, as she says in her office, one is a shovel, one is a broom. She has the broom, because the sweep the shed zone, if you read legacy, but legacy book, great book about the ‘All Blacks’, and they talked about sweeping the sheds. So it's servant leadership, servant hearts, no one is above that. The other is a shovel, because she talks about working on our roots. And that we need to really work on our roots, self-leadership, the fundamentals, how we can understand ourselves so we can lead our others better.
[00:42:47] Mike: Great stuff. So as we wrap up, I'll ask you two final questions. If there's one piece of advice that you could share with the student athletes that are listening, what would it be?
[00:43:05] Phil Darke: Again, I think it's, as we've talked about on throughout this whole episode, it's really, you know, know why you're doing what you're doing, and to really understand what's driving you, and that it's much bigger than the game that you're playing. So how is this developing you into the human being that you want to be, and that you're created to be? And I think that to make that distinction is important. Sometimes you want to be somebody else, know who you are, know how you're wired. Know that just because you know, you've see someone out there doing something, they're not you. You're uniquely created, you're uniquely, you know, you are wired in a way that you only you are wired that way. So know that, that's really important. And then that goes to your journey, you're fit, where you're going to understand that foundational understanding of I'm created to do certain things. I'm created, I'm wired in a way that nobody else is. And no, that the earlier you can know that I'd be. I'm so envious of people who know their why when they're in high school, or college, or they at least think they do. Because then you can hone it over the years without thinking about it. You think about it. Because you can very easily just wander through life and not have a purpose. And I met a lot of people who are in their 50s and 60s who don't know their why is still. And yeah, a lot of them are making a lot of money. But they're not content. Because they're not passionate about anything. So find something you're passionate about, pursue it. And that will help you understand, you know, they'll help you understand that fit. Don't do it because your parents want you to do it. Don't do it because your buddies want you to do it. Do it because you understand. It's how you're wired. It fits you and it's awesome that you are passionate about. And you know that. And so that will help you and it's so hard. It's so hard. The insecurities at the high school level are off the charts and I get it. I was a high schooler, I understand I was an insecure high schooler, like most high schoolers are, so I get it. But I do, I mean, I'm going to give you the advice, because that's what I tell my kids. And it's what I hope and pray they do, which is understanding who they are and how they're created and their identity. And that, like I said earlier, like my son, I'm loved because I'm your son, like, a lot something that is to know that and I hope that you are loved in that way. And so, you know, in and I'd also say, and here's something that's harder, but I always talk about leading from the middle. And just because you're not captain, and maybe you are captain, but even if you're captain, there's still a coach above you. But I've been led by my players more than once, as a coach. So be a leader in a proper, respectful way, if your coach is doing something that isn't right for your team, challenge them in a proper, respectful way, with things that will help them lead you better, lead your team better, and challenge them to be better because you have an ability to do that.
[00:46:18] Mike: It's something that I mean, I love what you said, and I agree with you. And I think that last point is really important for student athletes, which is to say, it's really hard to challenge adults, particularly those in authority roles, or parents or coaches. Because one we think that they know better, or if we think we need to challenge them, we don't really understand how to do that in that respectful mature way where we can get our point across without getting emotional. And I think that that's something that can be practiced and learned and needs to be learned. Because especially when you go from high school to college, you're on your own now. You have to advocate for yourself. And unfortunately, in the world we live in most high school kids don't know how to do that. You have parents are the ones that are advocating for their children and the Children's don't have, they don't have to stand up for themselves. And then when they go to college and something doesn't go right, we don't know how to do that. And we're not teaching them how to do that. So it's not only knowing when, but how to have that conversation with a coach in a respectful way to say I don't agree with what you're doing, or I think I should be put in a different position. I think that's a lot to ask of a young person. But if we help them, practice it and understand how to do it, it's a game changer, because then you do have a leader who's willing to stand up and speak up for the right thing. But he's doing it in a constructive way and that makes a program better.
[00:47:44] Phil Darke: And coaches invite that be vulnerable, invite accountability, because you're going to be teaching your players, again, life skills that they will take, and they can then take into jobs and you don't want to be building up kids who are going to be taken advantage of. And so again, certain personalities do it, like some personalities will then challenge improperly, but you'd rather have them learn and be able to teach them in that setting, then later in life when they then come out because if they're prone to do that in high school, they're going to be even more prone to do it in college, and they're going to lose jobs because of it. But if you can train them and I had that happen this year, on my high school team. There's a girl that is, you know, I've been coaching her since she was a freshman, amazing keeper, incredible keeper. If you're looking for a keeper out there coaches, if you're listening and you can give me a call. But she is also a Heidi wired very, you know, just direct. And she you know, at one point, made a big mistake. And I confronted her and she's like, gave me all the reasons why she was right and okay. And I said, stop. You made a mistake. And then I talked with her later about it and be able to coach her through that. I know how she's wired. I know how it was it, she thought it was fine, because we do have a good relationship but it wasn't fine. It wasn't appropriate. But I was able to coach her through that and say I like that you have the freedom to be able to engage. But here's how you can do it well, because if you don't the different setting, you're going to be benched for five games.
[00:49:23] Mike: It's going to land differently with a different person.
[00:49:25] Phil Darke: And so and I just told her stop doing the game was like stop, stop, just stop. And she goes, but I got to stop. And so I think there are that good for the coaches to be able to do that. But to encourage that I didn't tell her, don't ever do that again. I just because I know that that's actually valuable.
[00:49:43] Mike: Right. It's a learning opportunity.
[00:49:44] Phil Darke: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:49:45] Mike: I love it. So that's great as a great, that's a great story. So last question is, what's the one piece of advice that you would give to parents?
[00:49:58] Phil Darke: Learn your kids. Study your kids. I mean, I don't know, I have been we've been talking about this whole time.
[00:50:09] Mike: You have, yeah
[00:50:10] Phil Darke: And that's, that's really it
[00:50:14] Mike: Awesome. That's a good way to end. I agree. Phil, thanks for joining me here. It was great to have you on. I love this conversation, and I think I could probably go on for hours if we had the opportunity.
[00:50:26] Phil Darke: Yeah. Wow, anytime man. I'd love to have you on mine. And we can talk about continue the conversation there. I can also do this again. I'd love it.
[00:50:34] Mike: That'd be great, I would love to.
[00:50:36] Phil Darke: And if anyone wants to get a hold of me too, they just drop me an email. I'd love to chat with anybody who has any questions about whatever. I enjoy getting to know new people. And I guess I said helping you to flourish in your parenting. I really have a passion for that. So definitely, you know, you'll have all that info.
[00:50:55] Mike: Yep, absolutely. We'll drop it in the show notes. We'll have it in here and reach out to Phil. Thanks Phil. Take care man.