How is Eric D’Agati busting myths about physical training for young athletes?
It is extremely common for young athletes to engage in strength training to enhance their athletic performance. Many athletes start training in their early teens to develop strength, speed, and endurance. However, it is also common for those athletes to receive misleading or substandard instruction, which leads to poor habits and potentially injury.
My guest in this episode, Eric D’Agati, has spent 20 years in the fitness industry. Eric works with athletes of all types, including professionals and youth athletes. Eric has a unique approach to client assessment, performance enhancement, and injury prevention.
In Episode 38, Eric discusses how he assesses and trains young athletes for success. As Eric shares, training is not about setting weight room records. Successful training is about properly assessing young athletes movement capabilities and developing programming that allows them to create an athletic foundation that translates to better performance.
So, what was your biggest takeaway from my conversation with Eric D’Agati?
For me, it’s that young athletes need to master the fundamentals of movement before using physical training as a way to improve performance. Eric talks about the “Jar of Life” and how we must put the big rocks in the jar before the pebbles and sand. In this context, the big rock is learning how to move well first before ever picking up a barbell.
My suggestion to young athletes and their families is seek out a coach that will properly assess your physical capabilities before engaging in any sort of physical training. Further, find a coach that will help you prioritize the fundamentals of training in order to identify the type of training that works best for you.
I want to thank Eric for his kind generosity and the wisdom he shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can learn more about Eric on his website at https://ericdagati.com/. You can also visit him on social media on Instagram @ericdagati and Twitter also @ericdagati.
To learn more about how mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than AGAINST you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back in two weeks ready to get better!
[00:00:00] Mike: Hey Eric, how's it going man?
[00:00:03] Eric D’Agati: Going great. Thanks for having me, Mike.
[00:00:05] Mike: Thanks for coming on. It's great to see you there. I got the weights in the background. Ready for the podcast. I love it.
[00:00:12] Eric D’Agati: Absolutely
[00:00:13] Mike: So the first question I want to ask, I saw in your bio that you appeared in The Four Hour Body by Tim Ferriss who is like, I'm a big fan of Tim Ferriss. The Four Hour Workweek is another one of his books that's really influenced me in the way I think about things. So when I saw that it sort of just jumped out at me, I'm a bit of a nerd. So how did you get involved with that?
[00:00:33] Eric D’Agati: It's kind of an interesting story. So one of the companies I've been teaching for as a lead instructor for the last 15 years is functional movement systems. Now, functional movement systems are the FMS was created by great cook, who is legendary physical therapists. Gray was writing his book movement. And I get a call from gray out of the blue. And he says, Listen, you need to do me a big solid, my books about to come out. And I just landed a huge thing where I have this New York Times bestselling author who wrote a blurb for the back of the book, like one of the promotional things. And so he said, he happens to be in New York, and he says, I want to do your movement screen, and I need your best guy. So I had my facility in New Jersey at the time, he said, Can you help me out? So I called, you know, call this number, get this guy and he said, I'm in Manhattan. Now I can get a cab and be out there in an hour. So I said, Okay, so I haven't had the availability, it worked out. Now New York Times bestselling author, I'm expecting some guy in horn rimmed glasses and a gray goatee to walk in the door with cardigan sweater, because I had never heard of Tim Ferriss at the time he is only book was for our work week. And it had not the phenomenon he was now. And so he walks in the door, some young guy and board shorts and vans and so I'm like, Okay, this is cool. So I put him through a movement screen. And he thought it was kind of cool that I had discovered some shoulder stuff that he had been dealing with for some time and said, Ah, this is awesome, gave me some exercise you could do to help. And at the time, he was still in San Francisco, he said, look me up anytime you're in San Francisco and we will get together for dinner, and that was it. So I said, he is an interesting guy. And then when Google them. And so I had this little cult following that started falling. So I went out and got the four hour workweek and listened to it like this is kind of cool. And then never thought much about it. So now fast forward, like six months later, and someone calls the facility and they talked to my scheduling guy. And they said, I need to book a movement screen with Eric. And at the time, I wasn't taking on any new clients. And he's like, you can book them on screen with anybody. And he goes, No, I need to do with him. So he's like, this guy's insisting to see you. So I say, alright, listen, just sound you know, charge a full rate, and then we'll see what happens. Guy walks in the door, and he's got this big thick book. And he's like, you're the guy. Oh, well, I guess what does that mean? He goes page 283, or whatever number, and he hands me this book, and it says The Four Hour Body. And I look and it has a section on the functional movement screen. And the start of the book that chapter says, I went and got a functional movement screen from Eric to got he had one year performance. Never told me he was doing it. So he was going around and researching with all these different experts in different areas of physical preparation. And he went and Jody Franco's a friend of mine, he went and talked with him about combat training. And he went and talk with Tracy Rifkin about kettlebell training, and all these different people. And but he never told me that he was writing a book, or that's what he was investigating. So it just kind of happened to be that I landed in that and it was kind of a cool experience that I did it. And then he was, the podcast wasn't really a thing back then. And so he was not nearly the phenomenon he is now and now I'd become a huge fan.
[00:03:44] Mike: Yeah. So Eric, I guess the follow on question to that is, is like, what has that done if anything for your business, like being mentioned in the book has, did it have any significant impact on like, being your recognition or just in terms of an uptick in business?
[00:04:05] Eric D’Agati: I'm not gonna say it had a huge windfall. I mean, every once in a while, I'll get somebody that that will seek me out and say they saw that but much more in when it initially came out. But it was just in there kind of cool experience on that journey that I've had, which has kind of taken me some different and cool places that I wouldn't have expected when I got into this field.
[00:04:26] Mike: And the last question on this because I want to get into what we're here to talk about is, did you ever get to San Francisco and have dinner with him?
[00:04:33] Eric D’Agati: No, that I neglected because he was right was opening some, anybody can print their own books. I'm like, and then of course, when it blows up now, he doesn't return my texts when I send it, you know, say hey, can we get together? I missed that boat, unfortunately. So I have to become, you have to get this podcast out there. So I'll be big and famous and it'll hopefully return my call now.
[00:04:57] Mike: So I mean, when we connected initially, and we talked before the podcast. I mean, obviously it's it was under the pretense of, you know, you're out there training athletes, right young athletes, that's sort of like our target audience. So can you talk about not only FMS, but can you talk about just in general how you assess young athletes, because I think that's probably an area where there's a huge deficiency, I think for young people starting out with a real good baseline understanding of what they can and can't do?
[00:05:30] Eric D’Agati: Yeah, so it kind of depends on the audience and the setting. And the reason I say that is, because in the course of my day, I may have a high school team like afterward on I have a high school football team that I'm going to be working with. And that's a little bit different than say, when I have also a baseball Academy, where I'm working with kids who are more middle school age that I have later today. And then tomorrow morning, I have some professional baseball pitchers who are going to be coming in. And so they're all because of their environment they're going into is a little bit different in terms of what we need to assess where and what we need to consider. So with that, if I have on the top end, and then we'll work our way down on the top end with the pitchers, that's not only going to be a lot more involved, because there's the stakes are higher. It's their livelihood. But it's also going to be a little bit different in terms of there's a lot more specificity in their testing, you're talking about one of the most complex things and in all sports is throwing a baseball and also one of the most violent things you could do the human shoulder. So we have to take into a lot of considerations as of what are the things that we have to do to keep them as healthy as possible, and we're talking about two of the three have had Tommy John surgeries that we need to be mindful of. And then also, the difference between throwing 92, 94 maybe the difference in you playing an independently or you being signed to an affiliate team. So there's the stakes are higher. So we dial that in a little bit deeper, regresses all the way back to the middle school kids who were adolescents, who were just getting ready to go into high school and I have them in a group setting. We'll look at their fundamental movements and look and see, can you do the basics, because a lot of times we miss those big rocks, and so training is I always use analogy, if you ever see that the story there's and I wish I could attribute to somebody because it's almost become this urban legend. I don't know where it's actually from there was a college professor that did this analogy of the jar of life. You ever heard of it?
[00:07:33] Mike: No, I don’t think so.
[00:07:34] Eric D’Agati: So it's a marketing professor who puts a big empty glass jar on his desk. And he then proceeds to fill it first with big rocks, and then with pebbles, and then fills in with sand. And he starts with putting the big rocks and he says this jar full? People say, yeah, it's full. And he says, well, I need squeeze all these pebbles in and then now is it full? Well, no. And then he puts the sand and now it's full. But then he dumps it all out, and then he starts by filling in the sand. And then once the old sand isn't there, you don't have room for the pebbles and rocks. And so it's how you prioritize where you put things in now his prior his analogy for life was very cool, saying the big rocks are the things that are most important to you, that's your family or your closest loved ones, and your health, those things your big rocks, the pebbles would be your next thing down your friends, your career, those types of things which are important, but not as important as the big rocks. But more important than the sand and the sand is the day to day kind of minutia. And we talk about, training is that if you go on social media, and on the strength coach side of social media, everybody's arguing about the sand over what's the proper way to measure velocity within a set, and they're looking at what's the proper way to teach grit mechanics or work on the details of conditioning for lacrosse. Whereas like, I got to worry about the big rocks first, like can these kids touch their toes, like I'm going to teach them how to breathe properly, I'm going to teach them the basics about nutrition. And so when I lay it out, I look at you know, we have a 12 week program. I don't do it as a series of 24 workouts that they come in, run around sweat and get sore. I put it actually together like a college course where it's a 12 week process where we're gonna develop you and teach you all these things that are set you up for success for the rest of the way. And so even some of the most basic things we do with, I have a program specific to young baseball players called diamond core. And it's just a fundamental movement program that only uses two baseballs, water bottle, your back and your glove. But with those things, we've been able to see some significant changes when they step into the next cage and go ahead and start to hit or throw from the skill side. So it's been a pretty cool thing. So it's relative kind of to the audience and setting.
[00:09:51] Mike: Yeah. Well, it's very similar to what I do, which is to say like, not every programming for every client is different in terms of what their needs are? But you always start with an assessment in the beginning to understand where they're at. And I think it's one of the things that when we were talking, I was thinking about my work because I started working with younger, like 9, 10, 11 year olds, which I never thought I would do, because I was like, well, why would I, it just seems too early. And then I started to work with them and I realized those big rocks, like, that's where you build the foundation. And you talk about these core and basic concepts and mental performance. You started at 9, 10, like you've already like, you've fought half the battle. Whereas like, I could start with an 18 year old and still be having the same conversation about the rocks, because there's all the sand in the jar. They get all these little details that been filling their mind for the last 18 years. And now all of a sudden, you start with them. And it's like, well, I don't even know what controlling the controllable means, like, so we start back at this sort of basic level, the same stuff, I'm teaching a 9 and 10 year old, I'm teaching my 18 year olds, because they've just fast forwarded and missed all the big stuff.
[00:11:03] Eric D’Agati: It's funny, because it's the same parallels, like the myths of lifting weights. There's this old wives tale of don't let young kids lift weights, whereas I have some 9, 10, 11 year olds, and I have no problem with them lifting weight, like if they can lunge with great movement competency with their own bodyweight. And we need to increase the challenge a little bit, then if they grab some like dumbbells or kettlebells, totally cordoned off yet. I have 18 year olds, and I don't want touching a piece of weight, because they can't even squat their own body weight. So it's really relative to their capabilities. And as an art of really training is I tell everybody, you need to be two things, you need to be challenged. Because if you're not challenged, you won't change and you need to be successful. So it's like, if you're going to bench-press, and you can only bench-press 100 pounds for five reps, and we put 200 pounds on the bar, and things just gonna sell you in half. But if you put 50 pounds on the bar, it's not gonna be enough to really create a challenge. So I need to find that sweet spot at what we call the edge of their ability, where that's really the art of training, and how do I find that from a movement perspective, from your side, from the mental perspective, from a conditioning perspective, all of that is kind of finding, right where the edge of their ability isn't pushed them just beyond that.
[00:12:16] Mike: How do you find that the people that you work with, the young people, like respond to that? Meaning like, if you're going to challenge them, how do they look at training? Do they look at as like, wow, this is really exciting and different, and I know what's gonna help me or did they look at it as like, oh, I know, I have to do this?
[00:12:37] Eric D’Agati: Yeah, and a lot of that is the framework that they've been given by adults, the adults are worse in dealing with it than the kids are because they have their own framework.
[00:12:48] Mike: Yes, 100%.
[00:12:49] Eric D’Agati: I have to do first I have to undo what the adults itself. And then I can start telling what this actually is. And then once they get that, then they're like, this isn't what it's supposed to be like, so whether it's on the individual side of explaining what a workout is. So like, on day one, if you come in with your son, I'm asking a few basic questions that have asked every one individually for the last 20 plus years. Number one, why you're here? What are you looking to accomplish? And then a few questions down the road, and someone asked him like, how do you know if I've done my job? Like, what is a good workout to you? What do you think my answer is? 99% of the time?
[00:13:31] Mike: What is a good workout?
[00:13:32] Eric D’Agati: Yeah, like, what's the answer?
[00:13:33] Mike: The answer to you?
[00:13:34] Eric D’Agati: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Mike: Oh yeah, like, I'm sweating, like, I'm burnt out.
[00:13:38] Eric D’Agati: The two most common answers 99.9% of time, I sweat a lot. It was really hard and I was really sore afterwards. And so I just turn around and say, Okay, well, that's all you're looking for. I tell you what, I got a deal for you, Mom, Dad, gonna love this, you're not even have to pay for it, here's what you're gonna do, you're gonna come to my house this weekend, and I'm going to give you a list of shit to do, and you're going to clean my yard, you're gonna clean out my garage, you're gonna mow the lawn, you're gonna do all this stuff, you'll sweat a lot, you'll get really sore any better at lacrosse, but that's not what you said you wanted, you want to just sweating sore. So the first thing we got to do is define what actually you're here for? And you came in because I want to do something that I can't do now and I don't know how to get there. And so that's really what a good workout is, is you're walking out the door doing something you couldn't do before or at least you know something about yourself, whether it's your sleep or your nutrition or movements and so forth, that now it's gonna allow you to do things you could never do before. And then the other thing on the team side is, there's something really that I need you probably to counsel me through as far as the label that gets slapped on you when you're a strength coach, that I can't tell you what it's like when you win. Every time you show up to a place I show up at a practice. And every kid looks sees me and they're like, they're assuming that I am the Grim Reaper, they already just take a blowtorch to them. And they're often pleasantly surprised when it's like, no, we're actually going to land your back and do two minutes of deep breathing, and focus and visualization, or it's no, we're actually going to do a recovery mobility circuit, and you're gonna walk out in no way better than you do right now. So this idea of, I'll show up and the coaches, beat him up, take it to him coach, and I'm like, that's not what I'm here for. And you can make them run the stairs, you don't need me for that, you know what I mean? So, there's so much more to developing somebody to their potential. And when you see things from kind of all three sides from not just that the physical and structural side, but from the chemical and from the mental sides of things as well, that's where you can get kids to really appreciate it and connect and the best thing I can get is when I hear a kid, I'll get a kid who's one of my kids who played on team that I trained, and he texts me and says, Coach, I want to study what you do, and go and apply to college. Now, can you help me out like that? That's what is when you've made the connection and anybody could have blown a whistle and made him run.
[00:16:11] Mike: Right. I mean, listen to, you’re talking, you're preaching to the choir, I am like a freak, and totally interested in how the human body works, biomechanics, and like just learning all these things, and listen, doing the lifts that athletes need to do regardless of your sport that basic lifts are hard, they're skills that need to be learned, it's not just about piling the weight on the bar, and then trying to do it the wrong way. It's about understanding the movement and being able to execute it properly, without weight, and then adding load and making sure that you're doing it right. Like I didn't learn how to deadlift properly until I was in my, probably my 40s. And what I realized recently, and I don't even think about is, I don't have back problems anymore because I deadlift. Like my lower back never bothers me, because I deadlift the right way and it makes my whole body stronger, my core stronger, my back stronger, like, that's important. Like you need to learn how to do those things properly. And as a father, my kids are going to be in a weight room at some point soon, I want him to learn those lifts the right way before he goes in there and starts doing stupid shit. I want to make sure that they understand what they're doing and why they're doing it to your point?
[00:17:19] Eric D’Agati: It fascinates me that people are okay with how many people with how many kids get hurt when working out, like the whole purpose of working out is to make you more robust to keep you on the field so you can do the things you need to do. That's goal number one is, I say that yours are second goals, your performance, your first goal is, keeping you healthy enough that you can actually perform because you're number one ability is your availability, no one ever scored a touchdown or hit a homerun here. My job is to keep you on the field first and foremost. And then from there, I mean, we could do an entire show, we'll call it high school horror stories. And we just gonna have to have probably an eight part series of all the different things that happen in just a high school weight room. Literally just the other day, kid came in, and there his school was doing Max testing for the Power Clean. Now, we could go on a whole tangent on that. Kid broke his wrist. Okay, so now, Kid broke his wrist now, that's probably gonna set him back at least a couple months. So not only did you, what were you trying to gain out of that? Like what was the thing to say? It just put a record board on the whiteboard on the wall, just to say, this kid has the best max on the team when there's so many different things that we can talk about. One, who cares. So John Terina, has a mutual friend of mine who's a strength coach to the Colts, first thing he did was take all the record boards down because you know what he realized. And I realized that after some time, even when I made the mistake of doing that, is when I look at those top five. Those weren't the top five players on the field, they were the top five in the weight room. And when we train, we don't train to get good at training, you’re training to be good at something else. So that is the first thing that we have to understand and appreciate that if I increase your bench-press, that's nice, it shows us progress. But it's not necessarily a good thing unless it's going to translate to what actually we're going to do. And we talk about what is allowable in a high school weight room. And John and I actually have had this conversation as well. It is modern day legal child abuse. And what I mean by that is, you can have a kid. I've had kids, I have I actually posted this on my social media. I did a whole series on training High School. And just texts that I've gotten from kids. I just posted a bunch of texts I've gotten from kids and you know, kids texting me saying, Coach, I can't come in tonight. I can't even walk from our first workout of the year, and I can't even move. Now if we think about that, if your son came home and said I can't walk, I can't move. I'm in so much pain. And you say well your first question is well, how did that happen? Where did that end? He turns you and says, it was my English teacher, it was something we did in an English class, that English teacher would be brought up on charges and would raise their job instantly. But if you turn and say, well, it was my football coach who did that workout with this, then it's like, Oh God, he's a tough coach. I love that guy. He takes no nonsense, same thing. Like how is one, something would get somebody in jail, and the other one is applauded. It's insane. And so that is where we have just a huge issue with youth and high school development players.
[00:20:37] Mike: Yeah, it fascinates me that in 2022, that stuff is still happening. If I think back to my days in playing high school football, one, I never and we didn't our coaches, not that they were great coaches, but they never did that to us. Like, I just don't remember ever feeling that way. Two, we didn't even have like, the weight room was like we were just left to our own devices. And the stupid nonsense that we did in the weight room, and 15, 16 years old, probably should have hurt myself at some point, I probably did long term. But like, now, we have so much more information. And there's so many there's technology. And there's all these resources out there and, we prioritize health and safety and strength and all these things. And we're still doing the same old stuff like, what do you attribute that to?
[00:21:21] Eric D’Agati: As much as it's changed, the egos haven't changed one bit since those days. And so because of that, there's a couple things involved, I think there's one is that everything trickles down. So you have used to be that professional athletes, they didn't have weight rooms and those types of programs, and then they got it and then college got it. And then what happens is the higher end private schools start to get it and then now you have where the public schools to keep up have to do what the private schools do, if not, the private schools are gonna come and poach all their kids. So we have to try to do all that stuff and so we're trying to compete. So that's one end, which is kind of gone off the rails from that. And the competitive is where you have to compete with the private schools and the illusion of scholarships, and all those things that go with that. And then on the flip side, there is this complete mistaken identity of mental toughness that gets slapped on a training and what that's for, and you're probably talking about it better than me, but that has gone to an extreme where one is, I hate to break it to you, if there's coaches listening, it doesn't blah, blah, blah. Like, when I talk to my professional pitchers, never wants to they say I'm standing on the mound with bases loaded in two outs in a big jam. And they're like, Thank God, coach me, made me run all those polls, because I would never be able to get through this without you. And then it gets to the point where it's extreme. And again, it becomes abusive, to the point dangerous, where you had situations where kids have dropped dead from heat exhaustion, there was a situation where, and I had a post about this, as well as where I just implored coaches to say, Listen, you're not training the Navy SEALs. I've been fortunate in all the places this has taken me as I did, I got the opportunity to teach on two of our seal bases, one outside of Chicago and one in Coronado. And it's just awe inspiring that those people are there, they are a unique breed and people understand what the seals is. One is that type of training is what makes them a seal. That type of training is what they do to try to get separate the weak from the strong. So who can stay a SEAL who actually doesn't, because if you look at the, it's like 70, or 80% of the naval cadets who apply for the seal program don't get in. And those who do make it 80% of them don't finish training. They dropped out before that. So you're talking about the most elite of elite forces, not 14 year old wet noodles walking into a weight room for the first time. So you take that type of thing, and you try to make them in navy seals, and there was actually another kid who died because the seals do a drill where they have to carry boats overhead to work on teamwork, but that also something that's going to really happen in their training.
[00:24:13] Mike: And it's actually a functional form of training?
[00:24:16] Eric D’Agati: Yeah. Well, this coach said, we should then have our freshman football players carrying this giant heavy telephone pole size, large overhead. And of course the kid doesn't have the capacity to do that drops in his head and dies. How do you explain that? As a coach to a parent to say, I was trying to make your kid tougher. Whoops. Like there, it now this isn't everywhere. I don't want to paint doom and gloom at all. I mean, I work with high schools that the guys I work with that I'm gonna go see today. They won't find guys who care about their kids more than this in terms of helping them, transcend and get to college and where their nobody in the family has gotten college before and give them opportunities and teach them things that maybe they don't have a significant role model in their life will teach them, and so there are incredible great stories to go with it as well. So yes, there's some bad coaches and it's ego driven and this whole toughness type of thing. But unfortunately, you're not seeing that part trickle down from the pro levels. Because if you look at the pro levels now those type of coaches are slowly but surely dying off. One, because of the professional level, a lot of guys are saying, you know, my contracts longer at yours, I don't need to listen to you. I'm not a child, this is how I make a living and feed my family. Whereas if you're a kid, you don't know any better this is this an adult, you just assume they know what they're doing. And so at high school level, you're gonna listen at the college level, they own you, you have to do it. And so they don't care. They you're a commodity. There's four more kids just as good behind you. So if I cheer you up and spit you out who cares? I'll just go to the next one.
[00:25:57] Mike: Yeah. It's interesting, because I'm having worked with high school kids, one of the things that I have experienced with certain young people is that, they're overtraining, and I'm not an expert you are, but like, I worked with a kid who was in high school, he's a baseball player, and he like, I worked out like four times a day or something, and he would always be tired. And I feel like maybe you need to take some time off and recover. You're doing too much. So to me, the mental toughness, part of it is having the discipline to recover and not do something, because you think I have to do more? Well, sometimes it's less is more, recovery is really important. And I think that that's becoming more obvious with all of the voices in the conversation. At a certain point, you have to listen that recovery is critical. That means like, taking a day off, you know what I'm saying? Or working on your mobility or, you know, rolling, whatever it is that you do, like you can't just be go, go, go all the time, your body can't handle that load and the demands of it.
[00:27:01] Eric D’Agati: Well, the first thing right after we have that question of why you're here, and what makes a good workout? The next question I asked whether it's individual or team is, I say we work out, do we build up or do we break down? They’ll go build up, and they’ll go, no. Try again and break down. Basically, what's gonna happen is you're gonna challenge yourself, and your body's gonna go, Oh my God, I don't know what you just did. But if you keep doing that, I'm going to have to come back stronger, or if you're doing running or some type of endurance activity, I have to come back more efficient. So I can do that more the next time. That's how we survived as a species. And so and that's also how workouts aren't like Groundhog Day, because if not, you'd be lifting the same weight or running the same distance, same speed all the time. So your body adapts and said, Okay, let's come back a little bit better at doing this because everything we do is to build better efficiency. Now, that being said, that means that the magic doesn't happen here, the magic happens out there the other 23 hours a day. So the analogy I use is that the workout is like the seeds, and that you provide the soil. Now, if I plant seeds here on this rubber workout floor, nothing's going to grow. And so what do I say? What do you think of the main things that are going to make your soil ready to grow something strong, and I'll explain to. It is number one, nutrition and it is number two sleep. So we can do the greatest workout in the world. But if you're up till two in the morning playing Call of Duty or on TikTok, and you're eating Twizzlers, and drinking Red Bull, you're pretty much wasted your time here. So don't even bother. Because that's where the magic is happening. It's not here. And so rather than going back to the whole Santa analogy, everyone's gonna know oh, what can I get it, GNC, what's the best supplements I could take? The best supplements you can take are water, real food, and a good night's sleep. Let's start with that. And once you clear all those barriers, then we can talk about because if not, you're literally not even bigger. You're literally paying your money away. Because it's not gonna have any effect. Creatine doesn't matter if you've eaten Wendy's two times that day, and you have four hours sleep. It just doesn't work.
[00:29:09] Mike: Yeah. Listen, I was taking creatine 30 years ago and what I know I didn't know anything about it, I just took it. Now I know that if you take too much of it, it's probably not a good thing for your internal organs. And people are doing it on in an educated way. You supplement to add on to the basics, you don't supplement to like wash away a problem.
[00:29:30] Eric D’Agati: Well, supplements, one of my mentors gave me a great analogy supplements are like golden nails and here's what I mean. Alright, so we're gonna build this house. Mike, here's the deal. You're going to go out and get all the nails and you say, alright, well, I want this to be really good. So I'm gonna buy the best nails made out of gold that I could find. And I'm gonna get all the wood, and so I go into the woods and I find this mold rotted, dilapidated plywood that was sitting by the river, and I bring it back. Does it matter how good your nails are at this point? No, the framework is garbage. So it doesn't matter. So I have kids, before I let you take a supplement, I said you need to text me and let me know what you're gonna take me picture the label those, first I have to make sure it's not dangerous because there's no regulation on supplements, you and I cook up something in your kitchen sink and sell it. And there's no regulation, because that's kind of a deal that government made with the supplement industries and there's no regulation. So that's the first problem. Second problem is, who are you buying it from and getting your advice from? A kid Vitamin Shoppe who, who got the job a week ago, and it was either there or working at the gap and just Vitamin Shoppe call back first. And because they've worked out for six months, and they've read a Muscle and Fitness magazine, they're now the person you trust your health to? So you're buying whatever crap is on the shelf, and there's high school kids buying dog food sized bags of weight gainer, not having any idea what's in that crap. And taking it and not understanding why they're not making changes. And I appreciate it from the kid’s standpoint, the kids getting a barrage of information, thrown off. And with social media, it's hard to detect the difference between, someone who's been doing it for 25 years, and someone that just picked the right parents and happens to have ABS and has 10,000 followers. And so that's the struggle that I have in my business. And I joke with my son who's in college, my oldest son's in college setting accounting. And I said, here's the advantage you have son is, when you get out and you go to start your thing, you're not going to have to compete against accounting enthusiast. I have to compete. I've been doing this for 25 years, and I've have a Super Bowl ring. And I've all the things I've done, taught around the world. And I still have to compete with the libertine I have to compete with booty girls, because those are fitness enthusiast. And so, all people come to me, and they're like, Oh, I saw this cool workout on the Rock’s stream. Can we do that? And I said, all right, I'll tell you what we'll do. First, here's what I want you to do. I want you to call your, you have somebody who handles your finances. So call that guy up and say, can we do The Rock’s financial plan? He'll say, well, I don't have that kind of money and say, yeah, you don't. And you're also not The Rock. Because The Tock is a freak. He's he said, first of all, he's a division one athlete who went to the University of Miami. And he always say in play, it's because he was playing behind a Hall of Famer a defensive line And so first of all, you're not that, okay. And then on top of that, he's probably got some other supplements that you're not going to find it Vitamin Shoppe. What makes you think you're gonna do his workout? It's no different than thinking you're into his financial plan. He's got billions of dollars, because you've been in every movie ever made for the last 20 years. So that's where this information coming from that they don't have the ability to kind of look at this from break it down from a perspective of saying this is the thing that same make sense.
[00:32:56] Mike: Yeah. So I guess I was wondering, like, so I know, you were talking about sort of, everything is sort of unique to the individual or the groups that you're coaching. But are there like, maybe like one or two or three things like basic movements that you teach everybody?
[00:33:15] Eric D’Agati: There are certain, it's not so much movements, yes, there are certain movements everybody should be able to do, they should be able to touch your toes, you should be able to rotate right to left and extend. And the first thing you should be able to do is, do those without pain. And it's amazing how many kids just even at the high school level, have pain like I did a movement screening on a high school baseball team. And 30% of the kids had pain just doing bodyweight movements, that's before we even started working out and that's before they even started their season. This wasn't at the end of a long season. This is my forehand. And that's like scary that you have high school kids walking around in pain. So the first thing is we got to make sure that that's not happening, because it's not going to get better when I put a weight in your hand. And then the next thing is just having certain minimums that you need to hit, whether it's on the movement standpoint and stuff I talked about before, like before you ever deadlift, you should at least be able to touch your toes. Because if you can't touch your toes, there's no shot at you being able to do good fundamentals, then there are certain things in terms of the capacity minimums that you should be able to hit. So like as an example, kids say, well, I want to do chin ups. Well, the first thing we're gonna do and is there's a minute there's, you have to be able to straight arm hang, hand shoulder with palms overhand with your thumbs wrapped around the bar, can you hang for 60 seconds without falling down? If you can do that, then you can do a bent arm hang, flip your hands around the other way and get your chest to the bar and do that for 30 seconds. Now if you could do those two things, then great. Now we can start programming chin ups and there's a bunch of different varieties and schemes, we can go about that. But if you can't even pass the entry exam of the 60 second hold, guess what you do? You're gonna do a straight arm hang until you can. And so if you can hang on the bar for 14 seconds, what do you think your chin ups gonna look like? So why bother? So that's kind of certainly you know, one of the minimums that we kind of look for to say there's got to be certain checks and balances before we just throw everybody into doing this stuff.
[00:35:11] Mike: I'm gonna get into the weeds a little bit here, because this is just my curiosity as somebody who's into this stuff as well and this is a working theory. Like, I'm not an expert, but like the world we live in with technology, whether it's phones, or computers, or video games, or whatever it is, has to be creating, and sort of exaggerated scapular imbalance or instability in terms of like, scapular strength, which is essentially you're talking about grip strength right there with the hang, but it's also scapular stability. Are you seeing that maybe particular to pitchers like where the kids just like either hunched over or they're just not as stable as they need to be to do the things that they're doing?
[00:35:57] Eric D’Agati: Well, yeah, you have two things that go with that. So when we go through the whole progression, the first thing you look at is mobility, do they have at least enough mobility where they can move through full range of motion for whatever that given task or activities. So obviously, when you're in extended, or you're imposters for extended periods of time you're playing Call of Duty for six hours at a time, what happens, sitting in adapt, you just sat at a desk for eight hours at school, what happens is muscles will adaptively short and to make some complex muscle physiology really simplistic is if you kind of overlap your fingers, like I have them now, that's one small unit. And if imagine a million of those lined up to each other, that's what a muscle is? Well, those are what's called sarcomeres. Now, what they found is when you put things constantly and shortened position, you'll actually drop sarcomeres and muscle will actually adaptively shorten. So now that hip flexors that used to that attaches from the front of your hip to your lumbar spine, now starts to yank down on your low back and now you can have some low back issues. And same thing, like you said, the shoulder, the front part of your shoulder starts to shorten and pull down and you have some of those things. So then you so first, the ability issues that come with that. So that even if they want to do they can't even get their scapula and their shoulder and their arm in the proper position to be able to produce force. So that's number one. And then once you get them that range, it doesn't mean that they can control it, because you have people that don't necessarily aren't stiff, but they just don't have the ability to beat gravity, like gravity's winning, and they just fall forward. And so having the postural endurance and integrity that they can actually even get in those positions and hold those positions. That's the next thing hurdle you have to climb and working on a lot of those postural muscles, that run up and down your spine and in between your shoulder blades and behind your shoulders. That's a whole another thing that we have to account for. And then from there, then you have the actual strength, that you can match the challenge that you're going into whether it's throwing a ball or whether it's trying to push somebody off the line and football or having the strength to put into the ground to run or jump or change direction. And then the body control to manage all that once you do. Okay, how do I can decelerate my next step and then re accelerate for another step. All those things get compromised when the person is center, okay, when the person is not exposed to those types of things. And when we think the beginning and middle is just bench squat and clean. It doesn't check all those boxes, unfortunately.
[00:38:34] Mike: Right. So when you're teaching young people this, because you're teaching them right, you're reprogramming in their understanding of how the body works. And what's really important, because they're not thinking about mobility in most cases, they're thinking about how much weight can I push on the bench, or how much weight can you squat? But they're not thinking about an understanding sort of the biomechanics behind it and how the body works. Like, how do you find they respond when you start to talk to them in those terms like, what's the typical response if there is one?
[00:39:06] Eric D’Agati: The key is to always attach it to the skill the end product. What's going to happen on Friday night, what's going to happen when you get out right now? And what's going to happen when you're on the mat? How is this going to translate? Because if not, I'd be the same thing. Listen, not only when I was 16, what I say, like why do I care? But if your selling point is well, you're going to care when you're my age and I can't you know get out of a chair right now. I'm invincible at 16. And you know what it, I'm almost 50 and I still tuned yet like why do I care? I can attach it to your skill to say, Listen, your rotation of your upper body, your thorax and your T spine. That's what allows you to get that ball over your shoulder. And if you can't do that, you can't get there. They're like, yeah, I can't ever get a bowl of my left shoulder. Why? Like, probably a good chance of that. So if you can connect it to the skill, then they're boring because they're not there. They're not there for the workout either. They just been told that by the adults, we have to talk like this is bigger than this, this leads there like this actually has something to do with that. Yeah, this has to do with you doing everything you do out there. This is why we're here. We're not here to work out just to get good at working out. Unless your sport is powerlifting Olympic lifting or CrossFit, we're working out to get better at something else not working to get better application.
[00:40:31] Mike: Right. So actually, your answer the tell part of that answer goes and runs right into my next question. So talk to me about how it is trying to, I don't want to use sell, but I'm going to use it sell the adults in the room, whether it's parents, or the coaching staffs that you're talking to, like, what's the response sort of, what are the objections, or how does that go for you? Because I know, I have conversations just like that. And I think people think they know, until they don't, and some people don't want to hear it and some people are very open to it. So like, what's your experience in that respect?
[00:41:13] Eric D’Agati: What I found has been most successful is take myself out of it. And it is not my program versus the strength coach down the street. It is, okay. So if you come in and you say the end result is I want to be faster, I want my son or daughter to be faster. My first question, my first answer is not well, I have this incredible speed program and we've taken kids from here to here. And my speed program is better than their speed program. Because we have these timing devices, or I've studied this, or I know this, that's not the route that I take. And unfortunately, that's what a lot of people do, whether it's just in their conversation, or even look at an ad for a gym, they tell you, how many square feet they have, and how many 1000 pounds of free weights they have? Like, what do I care? I can only lift couple 100 of the time, like, if you have 25,000 pounds of free weights, those are selling. I'm gonna say, Okay, you want to be faster? Why aren't you fast in the first place? And you know why, because I can figure it out. And you're probably here because you can't. And I'm usually my best conversations with the person who's been to two different coaches or other speed centers. And like, I just have done a bunch of places, but I don't really get any, any better. And so my thing is, I am an investigator, I am a problem solver. I'm here to figure out why you're not fast. Why you don't throw it hard enough. You don't write why you keep rolling that ankle, and figure out why it is. And with that, it's not that I'm this this mystical Guru, I just have this really good set of checklists that I use. So I'm gonna first see is I'm going to look, I'm going to do some diligence. And I'm going to see, do you have anything in your medical history, your injury history, your training history that could that could have contributed to this, or that's taking away from this, like, I have kids that bring in their high school programs and the workouts are doing on their own? And it's like, well, that's why it's, you're not where you should be like, these workouts are doing are terrible. Like, you need to change that first, before I do anything with you. That's number one. Number two, then I'm going to look at doing evaluation say, is your movement a problem? Do you have enough mobility? Do you have enough control? Is that the issue and if it is, then I actually have some solutions that can clean up those issues if you don't have enough rotation, or if you don't have the ability to control yourself on a single leg? And then if that's not the case, then we look at performance factors and break it down methodically and say, is it that you don't have the endurance, you don't have the strength, you don't have the power, you don't have the elasticity? What is the limiting factor there? And then what we do is we look at your lifestyle factors and say, I want to find out a little bit about your nutrition, give me a food log of the next three days, everything you eat, and we just we just gather this information, and find out where the weakest links are, and then put together solutions for that. And if you don't have that process, you may have a really good solution for the smallest problem they have. You're going to be chasing after sand when you don't realize that there's this person has a much more strong issue. So that's really where the sale is, is not about me. And so when my favorite answers are, I don't know, and it depends. And so, if you tell me, if you say to me, I'm bringing my son in and he wants to be a better baseball player and what are you going to do with him?
[00:44:36] Mike: I don't know yet.
[00:44:37] Eric D’Agati: I don't know. I don't know what he needs. And so I may go through the whole thing and find out here's the deal. We looked at all that stuff. We looked at it all his history, his medical history, his injury history, we looked at all the things he's doing in terms of activities, that box is checked he is good there. We looked at his movement he moves well, we look at his performance factors, he's for strength, speed or that stuff for his age, his competitive level he's great. You know why he's really not what you want to be at baseball, because he kind of stinks at baseball, he needs a skilled coach, he needs a hitting coach he needs, he needs somebody that like I'm not, I could certainly make them a little better. I haven't found out for an athlete, I can't make better. But that's not the biggest Rock in this kids program. So having a non-biased evaluation approach where you have checklists, checks all those boxes, I don't really care what I'm not invested so much in any one method, that I have to be married to that now you're going to end up doing this that, your session may end up being I've had sessions that are just literally just me and you sitting down and talking about nutrition, or talking about lifestyle stuff, and we never touched your weight. We never even you never you could have kept your jacket on. So I it's not necessary, because that's what's going to get you to the next step, and that's what you came for. So if you just want to work out and somebody count your reps and spot you get one of your buddies, they'll do it for free.
[00:46:04] Mike: Yeah. I mean, listen, I go through exactly the same things in my work where people come to you and say, like, what's the result going to be? Like, how fast am I going to see results? Or like, and I tell them, I don't know, you don't know until you know. And it requires a couple of things. It requires patience. And it requires a dedication to the process, which I guess maybe they're one in the same, but I think a lot of people want results really fast. And those are the people that it sounds like at least I go through this too. It sounds like for me, like if somebody wants, like, quick fix results, like I'm not your guy and that's okay. There's plenty of people who will sell you that, but like, the people who buy in and say like I get it, like, let's go and have a conversation. And it's going to take a few months of just sort of chipping away at like what's really going on and trying different things. Those are the people that I want to work with, because now I know that they really are committed to being better. Because there's no guarantee of anything, I can't guarantee results. Because there's so many variables that go into it. But you want people who are dedicated to the process, which it sounds like, you are sort of in exactly the same boat in terms of what you do.
[00:47:16] Eric D’Agati: Well, on the on a personal side with the business stuff I explained to parents, I said there's kind of two things in our industry, there's that big warehouse down the street that has all turf and weights and they have classes Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you can sign up for some kids are better suited for that. And some kids kind of just need that they just need some structure. And some of those places can do right and make a big difference on not that. And so if your son or daughter needs that and needs that direction, and so forth, then that's the place for them. And I'm fine if you go there, and best of luck. I am more of a general contractor and architect for this project where I'm figuring out what your needs are, I'm gonna put together the plans, and then you're the one that's actually putting this whole thing together. So if you have someone that that's not built like that, that doesn't just say, do this for the next week, and come back next week, and we'll check in, then I'm not your guy. And then so with that comes to understanding the different personality types, and even when I'm working with teams that I got to be able to figure out who's the kid who needs a kick in the ass and who's a kid that needs the arm around the shoulder? And because I may be telling the same message to both, but I have to tell in a very different way. And then there's the kids that are the kids that I have to they have to challenge and say like, Come on, man, I know you could have done more than that, you know that you're better than you could have done more than you, I know you have more in the tank. And then there's the other case that I have to say you need to slow down like right not more is not better try process ease up. Like there's different types of personalities within kids. And then you have to see how much of that is actually truly different driven by the parent and how much is truly them. That's why I tell parents, I want them there for the evaluation. And so they can see what their investing is and what this process is going to look like? But then after that first session, I don't want you here, I don't want you in their eyesight, because they're just gonna be looking over the shoulder the whole time, and I'm not going to see who they truly are. And so that's gonna that's gonna be a part of the process because I have kids that are I have to drag along a little bit and they don't usually last long. And then the other kids I call box and nails kids, Mike's like if I said, Here's your deal, Mike, I'm going to give you this box and I need you to eat everyone in the box and come and that's good. It's going to make it better. And no come back at the next session with an empty box of coke do I need another one or not? And those are those are certain kids those are easy to deal with. They make us look like superheroes. So most kids are somewhere in between that and that's a whole art in and of itself. There's a great book called Conscious Coaching by Brett Bartholomew. Talks about that and understanding and appreciating all the different types that you have on your team and that are going to walk through your door and knowing that you can't even though you may I could teach the same program to four different kids but just delivering it in a different way, is kind of the art of what we do.
[00:50:04] Mike: Yeah. So I couldn't help but think about that when you're giving your answers like that's coaching. Like, we can go, I will go on a rant when I have the time about the art of coaching. The art of actually being able to understand somebody and giving them what they need to be better versus this is the way I coach, and it's probably the wrong way. But this is the way I do it, and if you don't like it tough shit. Like, I see it all over the place. And what's happening is when kids get to me, and they get to you, and they get to John, and they get to other people. There is so much unwinding and deprogramming and reprogramming because they've been told a bunch of stuff that just, it's most of it's well intentioned, but it's just not right. It's just not right and it's scary. And I talked to John, our mutual friend, John, about this all the time, because we live in the same area, we see a lot of the same things, it's like, there's just a dearth of really good coaches. And when you get one, don't let them go at least until you can't. So that leads me to my next question, which is to say, because of the way you do things, does that sort of lead you to a certain type of client? Is it like the profile, like, maybe ones that are higher achievers, or sort of destined for some sort of future career in athletics because of the way you do things? And I would imagine, because of, maybe cost and other things like, do you find yourself getting a certain type of kid or is it not that, is it sort of all across the board?
[00:51:40] Eric D’Agati: Sometimes, because they'll get scared off when they realize that I'm gonna put that personal responsibility on them. It may but at the other times, I tell great, I tell always tell this story of a kid we had at my facility years and years ago, and I tell a story, this kid, his whole big vision was he wanted to make the varsity team at the local high school. And this local high school was not exactly like a powerhouse. This was an IMG, like this was high school, maybe 150% of the game's best, but he just want to make that varsity team. And the kid worked his tail off, and it was so cool. Because his senior year he made the varsity team. And he was so excited about it and just beaming and I said, Listen, it's funny, because his dad was accountant, this kid's destined to be an accountant. I said, Listen, you came in and you look like an accountant, you're leaving as a really athletic accountant. He's gonna kill it in some wildly down the road, but he's not going to the NBA. But you got every ounce out of that, and you got every squeeze the juice out of that. And that's really more gratifying than the kid who shows up and just pick the right parents and has the great DNA that he could have chips, and it's going to go Division-One. So that's where, that kind of comes into play with the type of deal that I kind of get drawn to, but it's really just about seeing what what's being left on the table, like, what are you missing out on? What's the big rocks that you're not even thinking about? And that's kind of my job. And it's funny, we keep bringing up our mutual friend, John, and we actually had this conversation. He was going on a podcast, and I happen to be on the phone with him before that and it sparked a really cool conversation. He says, Listen, I'm going on this podcast. And like, one question they said ahead of time was, what makes a great coach? And I pondered it for a little bit. And then, you know, I came back to him, I said, here's what makes a great cook coach, is that they are so good at the technical and teaching you the technical, that they basically become obsolete. But they are so good at the tactical, that they're essential, and you can't do without him. And so like a great example of that is, like, if you look at one of the greatest coach of all time, you look at Bill Belichick, he's so good with a technical you could probably go to patriots practice and he could not even be there. And you watch and I bet you every drill is done to perfection. Because he's just so meticulous in terms of how he teaches that and how everything is executed. But in terms of the tactical, he's brilliant, and he's brilliant, because he doesn't have the ego that a lot of coaches have where I am the West Coast offense guy or whatever guy and I'm going to try to put that square peg no matter what shape the hole is, where he will have a completely different game plan for each opponent. And that takes a bit of humility to say I'm going to base it based on not me but based on what the environment is going to say. Their play fantasy football that's why it sucks to have a patriot on your team because 220 yards one week, the next week, that's right, but that's because he has the humility to say I'm not gonna be my game plan in my method to anything, like, there's a course that I just created with a partner of mine. And it's on program designed for trainers and strength coaches and physical therapists. And one of the big things we talk about is the difference of principles versus methods. Methods is if it's football, it's whether you run a run and shoot or West Coast offense or any of those types of things. Whereas a principle is okay, we're gonna win the line of scrimmage principle is we're gonna, we're gonna be quick to the ball, you know, those are principles that you can plug any method into. So that's where I think you see great coaches, because they're so good with a tactical because they don't veer from their principles, but they their methods are interchangeable, but they're so they're so good with their technical and how they can teach that and get you to understand it, that I love when a kid can walk into a weight room or a gym. And everybody says like, they're just impeccable with their form, or they know more than the strength coach does. And so that's where they're so good with the technical that you did basically become obsolete, but they're still good with the tactical that you're essential.
[00:56:12] Mike: Yeah, I love that answer. It's never been put to me that way, but it makes complete sense. And I think that's the essence of really good coaching. So for the athletes that you do have that, are on a trajectory post high school, whether it's to be a division one player, or maybe they're destined to be professional. Like, what are some of the issues you see at the high school level that might cause them to have some translation problems, when they go to the next level? Like what are some of the things you're working on in high school to get them ready for, whether it's professional baseball, or just the Division-One sport?
[00:56:52] Eric D’Agati: I would say the first thing comes to mind is the greatest sign we have at that level is especially if you have a great kid that plays on a good team. He now is becomes a gold star special treat that as a once every 5 to 10 years type of player. And so because of that, that coach is going to be very protective of that player. And they're also going to be scared to really coach that kid and tell them the truth sometimes. And so I can't tell you how many kids that I've seen that were the superstar in their local town at their local high school. And they let them get away with lousy grades and strewn off in school or being late to practice and all those things because they handle them a kick loves as a superstar, because they didn't have a team full of superstars. Now you got a big time private school and everybody's a superstar, they're not going to, you're not going to see that as much. But when you're so much better than everybody else, and you're allowed to do things that you wouldn't allow your average kids to do shout hamstrings, kids more than anything that's and so the biggest thing I can do for that kid is be real with them. And say, Listen, I know you're great here, but I'm going to let you know that there is that you are a diamond doesn't when you go to the place the point that you're gonna go to and I always loved this experience. So with my kids growing up that they were playing as baseball players. My one of my favorite things would be when we would go to an out of state tournament and we would get our heads handed to us like lose, like get mercy like 20 something to nothing. Because I then all the delusional parents around me who thought their kid was going to get drafted into the MLB, if I can explain to him said, okay, look, we're just a bunch of kids and uptown team from New Jersey, that club team from Maryland that just put a 20 spot on us with backups. Those kids go down to Florida, and they will get beat by 20.
[00:58:54] Mike: There's always somebody in that.
[00:58:55] Eric D’Agati: And that team from Florida plays year round that beat them by 20, they go to Dominican Republic, and they will get wiped up by a bunch of kids with milk cartons for gloves, and you know broomsticks for bats. Because you don't realize how far down that the food chain you are. And so being able to keep in perspective where you matchup is and that's the benefit I've had on all levels as I've seen it at the professional level working with pro-athletes, and then being as professionally and then personally I've seen it both as a coach of kids through coach my kids as well as still volunteer and a coach to being a dad. And kind of keeping all that perspective being had all those different lenses allow you to see like, Look, I've seen the best in the world. I love your son but he's not that. And so that's okay. There's a reason why 80,000 people show up and spend their week’s pay cheque to see that person because there're weeks. You just don't appreciate just how freakish they are.
[00:59:57] Mike: It is okay. And I think listen, I mean what you just said is exactly what's been my experience firsthand working with young people. Some of them who've gone on to play Division-One sports, I have a former client who I worked with in high school here in New Jersey. He went to college, and it was like, not anything that he expected. And I said to him, I said, Listen, it was hard is a hard first year, it wasn't what you expected, you pitch the third have an ending, like he struggled. I said, but what's the goal? And he said, the goal is to go to the major leagues, I said, yep. And you can get there, because you're 6’5” and throw 97 miles an hour. I said, but you got to look at this as a journey, you've got two to three more years to develop yourself and your craft and get better this first year doesn't define you. And I think a lot of kids struggle with that, because they're so used to generating results on demand, because they were so much better than everybody else. And then they go to this place where they're in a big pond. And they're just one of many, and they just don't know how to handle it mentally. They don't know how to handle it, the physical abilities there, because they wouldn't have gotten there if they didn't have it. But mentally, it's a challenge. And every kid that I work with, I have a couple of college runners same thing. They were stars in high school. And now they're right in the middle of the pack and it's really hard to deal with. And so how do you mentally prepare yourself for that transition, that change and being that situation where you've never been before? It takes a lot of mental tough, that's real mental toughness when you're not performing at the level you're used to? And how do I work through those, so I get back to where I was, and that's not an easy thing to do.
[01:01:41] Eric D’Agati: Yeah, that's where you have to be lucky and getting yourself a good coach, because, like I said, if you handle that superstar with kid gloves, and you never let him know these truths, he's never going to get there. And so because of that, they can get hamstrung for that and that's where they get held back, and that's where you really have to help out with that.
[01:02:02] Mike: Yeah, alright. So let's, as we kind of run up here, just past an hour, I'll ask you my last question, I asked everybody's same question in various forms, but it's basically the same. So if you had to give one piece of advice to those listening, whether parents, families, the kid, you can choose, what would that piece of advice be?
[01:02:27] Eric D’Agati: Understand that it is a process, and then with that process, there are going to be struggles and but your struggles are not the same as the next guy struggles. Some are going to struggle, because they don't have the physical capability, some will struggle because of mental capabilities, some are going to struggle because of their environment that they're put in or where they're coming from. And so you can't overcome someone else's struggles, and they can overcome yours. And so I think that's kind of the biggest thing is that, you have to appreciate that for that kid who's in the suburbs, and he's the superstar of his team, that you can't appreciate what that kid in the inner city has got to go through just to get to practice. And so but at the same time, you also that can be understood, he might not understand that the pressures that this parent is putting on the other kid to say I need you to go to an Ivy League school, or I need you to get a scholarship or energy get any of those things. Because the Canadian or city of look, if you just get out of the thing alive, we're happy. And so understanding that you make, don't make someone else's struggles yours and just kind of figure out what is it going to take me to get to where I want to go? What is it that's holding me back and finding the right person that can tell you the truth about that? Because it's been a whole another podcast about how there's, this is a business. And Michael Lewis just wrote a great new book on the youth sports industrial complex. And with that, the billions of dollars that are getting made off of that, and most people that are that are making decisions for you and that are trying to answer those questions for you, they have a financial vested interest in that. So when they tell you need to play your round baseball, or you're not making our club, then what am I going to do? And now I'm $5,000 in, and I'm so emotionally and financially invested in this thing, that there's no way out of this rabbit hole and then your kid gets all the way to senior year and says, I don't want to play in college anymore. Well, I could have saved myself 15 grand and you can play for the local legion team. So I think that's the biggest thing is to not lose sight of the big picture. I would highly encourage that people kind of look at that book and kind of keep perspective and figure out what's going to be the process here and what and where is that process going to take me and I know people that are leading me down this path, are they doing it for the right reasons?
[01:04:52] Mike: Yep. So great answer. It's a great way to finish and I think it is entirely another podcast which I could visualize that that's going to happen at some point in the future if I keep this going. So Eric, I want to thank you for coming on. I appreciate the time you spent. I know we ran probably a little bit long, but it was a great, great talk. Thank you for being a part of it.
[01:05:13] Eric D’Agati: Absolutely, no problem. And like, it's like we both said we probably could go on for another one. So anytime you want to come back, let me know.
[01:05:21] Mike: Awesome. Thank you so much.