How is Barb Smith helping female athletes develop the “armor” necessary to succeed in the recruiting process?
Navigating the college recruiting process has become extremely challenging in an ever changing landscape. Technology, social pressure, and financial considerations are all critical influences that make recruiting very stressful.
My guest on this episode, Barb Smith, is a former Division I women’s basketball coach. She also played basketball at THE Ohio State University. Barb is founder of Find My Team, a company that is an educational resource for aspiring female student athletes to empower them with the tools necessary to navigate the college athletic recruiting process.
In Episode 42, Barb discusses how she is using her experiences as a player and a coach to help young women navigate the college recruiting process. Barb talks about how she mentors young women through the recruiting process by giving them the resources necessary to find their ideal fit for college.
So, what was your biggest takeaway from my conversation with Barb Smith?
For me, it’s that young athletes should take ownership of their recruiting process. It might be natural or easy for parents to lead the way for their child, but allowing the student-athlete to take the lead will likely result in the best possible outcome.
My suggestion to high school student-athletes is to own your recruiting process. First, understand your priorities in selecting a college program. Second, take the lead in managing your own process because college coaches will take notice.
I want to thank Barb for her kind generosity and the wisdom she shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can learn more about Barb and Find My Team at https://findmyteam.com and on Instagram @findmyteam.
To learn how mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than AGAINST you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back soon for Episode 43!
[00:00:00] Mike: Hey Barb, how are you?
[00:00:01] Barb Smith: I'm great, Mike, how you doing?
[00:00:03] Mike: I'm doing great. It's great to see you again. I hope you're doing well. I was really good. It's great to have you on the podcast.
[00:00:09] Barb Smith: I've had a couple conversations with you prior. And I always love our conversations. It's inspiring.
[00:00:20] Mike: Yeah, you know, and that tends, the way that the podcast tends to go is it tends to kind of, we tend to go down rabbit holes here, but that's my style. And you know, I'd rather have a deep conversation about something than a superficial one. So let's get into it. So, if I could start by asking, like, what inspired you to get into coaching professional?
[00:00:39] Barb Smith: This can be a three hour long story, but I'm going to condense it. When I was growing up, we had my grandparents lived on a farm, and my parents have both families are very large. So we would go out there to the farm and play everything. I mean, we would play backyard volleyball pool or volleyball, basketball up in the hayloft, shuffleboard, you know, chess, we had beanbag throw back then, you know, now they call it corn hole. We had all the horseshoes, everything. And it was always a competition. And I just loved playing the competition is what I loved about playing. And so you know, going through junior high in high school, I got into sports, and I loved it. I loved all the, everything that you get out of sports. And so that just, I loved it so much. I wanted to continue it. And there was no I'm old, there is no pro for women back then or anything. So I decided that this is when I was going to get into coaching. And jumped right in and had a great college career. Tara Van Derveer was my coach. And she is the best. I mean, I to this day, she has not changed in her. You know, the way she treats her players and the camaraderie and the teamwork. You can see her teams play. That's what I look at that and I go, yeah, that's home. And so much from that experience led me to, I want to give back like that. I want to do that and so I went into coaching. Wow,
[00:02:23] Mike: Oh wow, I did not. You still at Stanford, correct? One of the great woman's college basketball coaches of all time, could you do it? And you went to Ohio State, correct?
[00:02:33] Barb Smith: Yeah, she is the winningest coach right now in women's basketball. So she's in his back talk about giving back, she's done so much for so many people, including myself.
[00:02:47] Mike: Okay, so you know, I didn't expect to go there. Because I didn't know that. But tell me about her. Tell me about what it what it is about her? What are some of the attributes that she has to make her a great coach?
[00:02:59] Barb Smith: Tara, she's real. First of all, I mean, she's gonna tell you, like it is. And she's, she's not going to sugarcoat it, but she has this way with her analogies. And so she would say things like, you know, why do you settle on being a VW when you can be a Porsche? You know, those kinds of analogies, and it just made you it always hit home? You know, why are you shooting for the ‘B’ when you can shoot for the ‘A’, and just constantly motivational talk from her. And then, you know, she was all about team, you know, we're not gonna do it together. We're not doing it all type thing. And, and, you know, whoever was up to the child. I mean, there's a quick story. You know, we're in a timeout in the locker room, and we're playing Northwestern at the time. And this player is killing us. And she comes in the locker room and she says, who's going to guard this this person? And I just said, I'm going to, I'll do it. I'll do it. You know, she was 6’ and I was 5’. I'm 5’3”, 5’4” you know. I wanted five on the roster. Because when you look taller, but I was the shortest player in the big 10 for one year, I think. Mike, but anyways, I said I'll do it. And so she's like, can you do it, you know, and it wasn't there was a size difference and everything but like, if you want to do it, you do it. And the funny story is the kid had 16 points at halftime and ended the game of 15. So I'm the only person in the history of college women's basketball that took away a point on the stat sheet. Though it was you know, obviously an error. She didn't score right but she's point away which was a mistake was you know, Tara was at the end going, now that's how you guard somebody take points.
[00:04:57] Mike: But I think there's a lesson in there and this is something that I talk about with respect to coaching. And I'm sure you're have a more nuanced view of it than I do. But like, to me, the word that comes to mind when you tell that story is trust. Like, she trusted you to go out there because you want it. And I think a lot of coaches would look at that situation and say, like, No, I can't put this person on her, because she's eight inches shorter. And, you know, we gotta find someone who matches up physically, when she said, hey, you know what, I don't care that you're shorter, if you want it, you're probably gonna go do a good job. And I think a lot of coaches don't trust their players in that way, for whatever reason. And I think that that's something that's lacking in the coaching profession in general.
[00:05:38] Barb Smith: No question. She was you know, I was walking at Ohio State, and eventually earned a scholarship. So she, you know, I walked into that office, and she said, look, there's no guarantees that you're going to make this team. And she was very demanding when we're in practice and on the court, but she was, you know, if you're willing to do it, then you got a chance. And when she said, there's no guarantees, but you can try to walk on to me, it was like, she's giving me a roster spot. And what am I going to do with it, you know, I can toss it away, or I can, you know, work my tail off and make sure that I get to keep it in, you know, she held up to her word and, and I busted my butt and great things happened, and so many lessons happened. But trust, you know, demanding, but motivational, she's always inspiring. And she's, you know, if you look at any of those videos now, and they when it's like she's there, they have fun with her.
[00:06:43] Mike: Now well, that's also underrated. I'm curious though, like, as a walk on was there were there any instances or any times where you thought about not continuing on quitting routine,
[00:06:54] Barb Smith: It’s interesting because going walk ons, you get no money, you know, you're treated a little bit differently. But when I was with that team in that group, you never felt it, you never felt anything different. And there was never, it never crossed my mind that I was going to transfer. And back in those days, that wasn't even very common. It did happen a little bit, but it wasn't very common, not nearly as common as it’s today. You know, if you didn't play, like I was going there to try out if I didn't play, I was going to stay at Ohio State because that's where I was going. And, you know, I'd have to do something, try out the next year or player murals or something else, but I was going to do that school.
[00:07:43] Mike: Did you have offers to other schools that you turned one?
[00:07:46] Barb Smith: One other offer, and a lot of people wanted me to just come you know, just come in, you know, walk on, basically. So it was it was more of that. And, you know, I said well, I've got a lot of places to walk on, I'm gonna go to the one I want. And you know, turn down one offer to go do that.
[00:08:09] Mike: Right. And there's a great lesson. And then we were talking before we started recording, but that idea of finding the school that fits you and it sounds like you went to the school that fit what you wanted as a person. And you happen to make basketball part of that versus going to school strictly to play basketball, and not having the other pieces of your life fit, whether it's you know, cultural, social, academic, etc.
[00:08:33] Barb Smith: See this as well in your work. But you know, as a coach, I have had 30 years of experience seeing student athletes thrive in college and just seeing some of them just survive it. And those two experiences are so different, hugely different, even to the extent where they, they go into the, you know, beyond college, you know, either you're set up and you're confident and you're ready, versus you're still surviving, and you're either hurt, you know, in like mentally hurt or whatever, that it affects the rest of your future. And it takes some time to you know, maybe come back. But if you know, if any student athlete or any parent saw that their either their student athlete or you know, the student athlete themselves, if they can look ahead and find, you know, be able to see in the crystal ball where the thriving experiences versus the surviving one, they would choose the thriving experience, even if it was in another country, even if it was in another continent. That's how different those experiences are.
[00:09:44] Mike: Yeah. So I mean, you said you're a coach for 30 years. What are some of the things that you did as a coach to help your athletes thrive beyond the best out of?
[00:09:57] Barb Smith: I tried to get out there and really try to be honest about what it is that you're getting yourself into, and had those same conversations with parents, and just tried to be as honest, you know, my assistants would sometimes say you're too honest about what it's going to be like. But because of my own experience, I didn't want to lie to players or sugarcoat things or not be honest with them, because I knew them not being happy is going to affect all of us. And I think sometimes coaches are willing to put up with that just to get the best talent in. And so sometimes it works. And sometimes that's a big struggle. And sometimes people are jumping around jumping out, but you know, I just wanted to one of them to know what they're getting into. And then we did it, we always did team building, and you know, leadership type things and tried to get players to maybe look beyond just the sport, they play something bigger. Because you have to find a passion. In college, if you're just going for the sport, and you get injured or something happens, and the sports not working, you will flounder because you have not put the whole package together.
[00:11:17] Mike: Absolutely. So it's funny, I had somebody on the podcast a number of episodes ago, and he was a football player in college. And the only reason he was in college, the only reason he went there is to play football to make it to the NFL. And long story short, he had a very serious injury, had to retire, I think as a junior and went through a very, very serious period of depression. Because he didn't really have anything else. And he now admits that, you know, and probably 10 years later, he said, you know, it wasn't until I figured out what my passion was outside of football, that my life started to get better. And I think if you keep that in perspective, from day one, you're in college, exploring things that are also important to you side by side, which to your point, if you have, and I talked to athletes about this all the time, if you're feeling good about yourself, then you're going to perform better too. If you're not happy in other areas of your life, or you're anxious or stressed out or whatever, it's gonna be really hard to be at your best when you show up at the corner of the field, or whatever it is you do, because there's all this other stuff that's occupying you, and you can't be your best. So you want to put yourself into this bigger frame of mind of like, hey, if I'm happy in my life, I'm probably there.
[00:12:37] Barb Smith: There's no question there. And you hit it on the head with, there's so many things in college that are different than they were in high school. So you're, you're figuring out even your own identity and who you are going to be. And you know, it might be the first serious boyfriend or girlfriend or you get or see in your life than you are in a student or, you know, this whole thing about sitting and not being able to play or injury, there's so many things. And, you know, if you're not, you just have to be open minded and aware that it's not to be you're the star athlete in high school, and you the town knows you in the front page and all this, you know, when you suddenly that gets cut off? Who are you? And who do you want to be? And bring that into college.
[00:13:29] Mike: Yep, absolutely. And it's you know, the phrase that comes up a lot on this podcast, and you're talking to different people and talking to different people is sort of big fish in a small pond, right. You know, in high school, you're catered to as an athlete, you're getting a lot of especially now there's recognition all over the place. I mean, it's amazing to me how much publicity comes through social media about high school kids are playing sports. And I think about it 30 years ago, when I was in high school psych, you know, we didn't have this, if you got your name in the newspaper, it was a big deal. You know, now it's all over the place. But you're coming into this new environment where you're just one of many, and it's like, okay, like, am I going to be able to look at this as a growth experience? And it's three or four or five years, versus like, if I don't come into play right away, what's wrong with me, or I shouldn't be here, I need to go somewhere else because this is not realistic. You know, when you start a new place, and whatever it is you're doing.
[00:14:26] Barb Smith: And I think that's the you know, with starting at so youngest with youth sports, if you're not working on that, if you're not opening the doors and the eyes at that age, then they grow up these young kids grow up knowing that I'm this athlete, and that's who I am. And I've seen you know, I'm sure you've seen this in your work too, but just mental breakdown in college, because sudden decathlete.
[00:14:57] Mike: Absolutely. Yeah, I do. I do see that? And I see I get a lot of overwhelmed athletes? Probably, you know, I don't know, maybe it's revisionist history, you know, I think I probably was overwhelmed at points to my athletic career when I was younger, because it was so important to me. And a lot of times I position it that way with kids as they listen, this is a really important part of your life. So much so that it's sort of overtaking you, well, what can we do to reduce the burden and the same for parents who don't know how to deal with it? Like, that's the other challenge as a parent, like, sometimes they're at their wit's end, like, how do I help this person, my child, and I don't really, I don't know that there's anything else that I could do to do that. So it a lot of times is a very upsetting thing to be involved with at first, but it's also very rewarding to help. And so I guess the question I have for you, because this sort of dovetails with your coaching career, but also what you're doing now in the recruiting space, like, like, what are some of the challenges you see, when you start to get to know a family whether you're a coach coming, when you're coaching, and you come in the house, and you have a conversation, or when you're working with people now helping them understand the process? Like, what are some of the challenges you see?
[00:16:13] Barb Smith: I think one of the biggest challenges is that there's just not a centralized place where these parents and families can go, that's why I find my team was born. Because we want to be that central hub. And we're not a recruiting service, we're so different than a recruiting service, educational resource for the recruiting process and that means you can come to us for answers. Because there's, you know, you can Google things, you can try to find things, and some people spend hours trying to find answers. And, you know, that's just seems like a waste of time, and you still don't know if it's the right answer, you don't know if it's an honest, genuine, good, up to date information. So that's one challenge. The other challenge, I think is, you know, parents love their kids so much, right. So parents want to make life happy for their child. And so they'll step in fronts, if things get tough at every time, they'll fight the battles, they'll speak the words, they'll you know, knock people out of the way, they'll go blame the coach, or blame the teacher or whatever, when the child falls. And if we could just let the child fall, they would learn how to bounce. And in, there's this thing about bouncing, that if we even like, you know, push our kids over metaphorically once in a while and let them fail, they'll get stronger, and they'll be able to bounce back. If we don't do that, stay and fight all their battles and do all their work for me, people are filling out applications and everything for their child talking to kill just email and the coaches for recruiting purposes. If they do all that work, then it's not going to be the child's decision. It's the parents, but they're not going to bounce back, they're going to bounce out, which is what they're doing. So we're trying to teach, you know, you're gonna be there's gonna be obstacles in college, and in the recruiting process, it's going to be hard. But there's this thing called bouncing back versus bouncing out. And you want them to bounce, you want to get back up and keep going and learning. But you've got to be able to, I always tell the parents, we have these conversations now. You gotta get in the backseat. Your child has to drive. You gotta get in the backseat.
[00:18:48] Mike: Right. And that's a phrase I'll use very often is, you know, parents taking it up, having parents pick their hands off the wheel. Like I when you were saying that is sort of smiling to myself, because it's so true. And I've had a couple of people on the podcast coaches, baseball coaches, particularly, who've said, like, when we're in the recruiting process, we want that email to come from the kid, we want the kid to look us in the eye, we want the kids to take ownership of the recruiting process, because we want to know that they're in it, like versus having mom or dad pick up the phone or send an email or complain about something. Like, that's not what we want, because then what happens when they get there and there's nobody there to protect them to advocate for them. And that's a real issue. You know, we talked about this a little bit, you know, before we started recording as well in terms of like, the clubs, sports, whether it's AAU, whatever it is travel sports environment in our country. There's a lot of bouncing around trying to find the right team, whether it's somebody who's going to play you or someone's going to tell you what you want to hear. And if we're not happy with what we're getting, we're going to move like that's also part of the bouncing back prop. So that's like, yeah, you know what, I don't like your coach, either son. And I don't love that you're here. But this, you're part of this program, and like, you got to stick it out. And, you know, we're all going to have bad coaches and bad bosses and whatever it is in our lives, and we have to learn how to deal with it, and speak up for ourselves, which is one of the things that I am huge on working with kids in my coaching practice is to say, you need to learn how to advocate for yourself? You know, and I know it's not easy when you're 15, 16, 18, 20 years old, talking to an adult who holds your athletic future, in his hand, his work or, or her hands, but you have to learn to have that conversation, because they're going to respect you for it. And once you know where you stand for real, then that's going to alleviate a lot of the anxiety that you're having. Because you're telling you're making up stories in your head about why I'm not playing or why this coach doesn't like me, when it may be something totally different, you know, that you don't really understand.
[00:20:56] Barb Smith: There's so many kids have transferred without talking to, you know, a staff member. And, you know, it may be through parents or through even other players. But, you know, if you don't know that you know, if you don't know what's going on, if the company didn't know what's going on, because the player isn't communicating that things could get way out. Like anything, but you know, kind of what we're talking about also before was, you know, if you feel like you aren't in the right program for club or not in the right high school or not in the right, you know, college team, then, before you just bounce out, all these things should happen. Like you're talking about communication, try give it a shot, you know, why are you here in college, you're going to learn you're going to be there's all these characteristics that you get from sports to begin with, that are going to come into play, and you're going to use them for the rest of your life. If you don't get a chance to develop those, you're still going to struggle, when you leave, if the first thing you think of is well, you know, they're either not playing me right, or I'm not like program or instead of, you know, just reframe it just turn me around and just what can I do to make this situation better, that's a skill that's learned.
[00:22:19] Mike: Yes, I couldn't agree with you more, right. And the quite the way I would ask that same question is, typically, what could you do differently? And you know, having holding yourself to account and being willing to take constructive feedback, and not taking things personally, I mean, these are all life skills. And I've had so many athletes, particularly college athletes, like what would it be like to talk to your coach about this? And they're like, I think I could. So like, why don't you? Because I think there's this perception, and I'm sure you can speak to this better than I do. But like, if you speak up for yourself, there's a perception that you're gonna, you're complaining, you're a complainer, and you don't want to rock the boat, or you don't. But and when I what I distinguish with them is to say, there's a respectful way to do it. And maybe you're not comfortable with that we can work on that we can talk we can role-play, we could talk about it, like, how can you go have this conversation? How could you ask the question in a way that makes it seem like you want to get better, and contribute and fit in versus like, Hey, why are you doing this to me? Which then it becomes a conflict which it doesn’t need to be.
[00:23:27] Barb Smith: I really want them to come. And now you might not always get the answer you want back but you know, the community is, is, you know, that's half the battle that keeps all the walls down and, and keeps everybody you know, transparently engaged. And it goes much smoother when student athletes can find their find their voice.
[00:23:53] Mike: Yeah. So I want to go back to find my team. And you're sort of talking about that. That's, so it sounds like what you're doing really, and you can correct me if I'm using the wrong terminology, but it sounds like you're really advising families. You're consulting, advising, mentoring people through the recruiting process versus helping them get a result because that's, that's what I when we were talking before, that's sort of what came to my mind, which is to say we're so results oriented, I want to get an offer to go to a division one school versus like, hey, how do I get somebody to help me navigate this process? So we can find the best answer, whether it's Division 1, 2, 3, NAIA Community College, whatever it is, you know, to think through it critically. So we get a good result, but not a pre-determined one.
[00:24:45] Barb Smith: Yeah, we get them and thanks for asking that question. We try to get them as early as possible. And we help them identify things that are really important to them. And they don't know these things because nobody's ever asked them and our feedback has been so good, even from the parents that we give them this little assessment. And then we go over it, as I was saying, individually with them, and their parents say things like, it's opened, it's open communication between me, us and our daughter, because now we're talking about things that she is about. And she said, nobody's ever asked me these questions. So it's just like, you know, it's just opening is just opening her mind about, Hey, maybe I do want this, or maybe I do want that, or maybe I do want the style of coaching. And, you know, two quick scenarios, I had a student athlete come through our program, who is it was all the one that was in there, what do you want to do on this all I want the one. And, you know, we took her through the whole program, and she stayed with us. And you know, slowly, she started realizing that, that's not going to help me get to where I'm going. And it isn't that I don't want, you know, 24/7 you know, no time for anything else. But she only knew Division One. But as she came through, we were able to talk about differences in the divisions and not to think of it as lesser than that is just a huge misunderstanding, that it isn't lesser than she ended up going Division Three, she got offers, turn them down to go Division Three, that is unheard of. And she's got to pay for this now. But this is where she wants to go. This is what her life, you know. And so this was one transition. On the other side, I had a little, you know, cross country runner who through COVID had gotten ill and didn't think she was going to play at all. So she was aiming at. Again, wrongly, so the division instead of that place, she was thinking, you know, I'm not gonna get anything, you know. And we worked hard, and we got creative with her times. And she had to do a lot of work multiple jobs. And she ended up getting the division one scholarship for cross country, and she went there, and it's like, it's the fit of these places. And if you find that these kids are going to be, they're going to be great.
[00:27:12] Mike: Yeah, how much, this comes up a lot. So I'll ask you, how much influence do you think social media has on the process?
[00:27:19] Barb Smith: Social media, media on TV, you know, all of it is a huge plays a huge role. But I also think, you know, like, you and I were talking about youth sports, you know, there's a club sports, there was a club program, well, well thought of program around in the country, who you know, has a bit of a reputation for putting out good kids. And so one of his players chose Division Two over Division One, I'm sorry, Division Three over Division Two, so he's gonna get a scholarship from the downward Division Three, and he reamed her. He went, he said, you're a disgrace to our club, because we have a reputation to uphold. And so all of the kids, he told all the kids not to associate with her anymore. All of those kids now have this impression that if they don't go to the highest level, then they're going to be, you know, criticized for it. And it's just this messaging that we're giving, passing on is, is really a disservice to these kids finding the right fit.
[00:28:36] Mike: Yeah. And you know, listen, as upsetting as that is to me to hear, it doesn't surprise me, because these coaches are running these private clubs that are made to generate a profit. And so for them, it's reputational. And it's like, if we're not turning out, you know, more scholarship athletes, and it makes us look bad. And you know, we're going to lose business because of it. And they want to sort of, they want to punish that, that choice, which is terrible. It should be about it should be about the athlete, but the kid not that. And then you've got the other side of it, which is the parents who, you know, God bless him. I'm a parent, I have two kids, and they both play sports. And it's not the cheapest thing in the world for us to do. And I think there's just this implicit understanding a lot of times as parents, it's like, well, if I'm investing all this time and energy and money into this process, like, there should be something on the back end to defray the costs, which would be a scholarship, right? And it's not like they want ill for their children. But like, I think it's just a natural human instinct to be like, okay, like, let's get something out of this. And I think that that contributes to the pressure that the athlete feels the student athlete feels to make their parents happy, which then it becomes like a circle, you know, in terms of you know, creating anxiety in the system stressing the system because they're trying to please all of the different aspects.
[00:30:01] Barb Smith: Yeah. I was actually trying to talk to some student athletes who can't talk to their parents about what they really want, because parents want them to go division one, and they have to get a scholarship or they don't get to play sports. And that, again, is a, that's a tough one. I mean, you know, there are ways to fund all levels, all divisions of college, and it can work out. And again, I would point all those parents back, and the club coaches back to, you know, here's a chance for this human to thrive college and to really be able to set up that they're able and capable of giving back when they get out there. And you know, making the world a better place instead of, you know, bouncing around or putting people down to get up and all these other things that you can learn through this experience as well. And, you know, what do we want to teach them? And I'm just looking back at my own experience, it's like, you know, you play because you love it when you're young. And as you go through the, you know, up the ranks of high school and college, and maybe even pros, it gets less and less and less about liking and loving a sport, and more about just doing it. My whole thing about thriving versus surviving.
[00:31:20] Mike: Yeah, and listen, you know, rightfully so like, being a college athlete, particularly at the division one level is like a job, right? When I talk to kids, and I have a couple of few Division One athletes that I work with, you know, listen to schedules are rigorous, you know, you're lifting and you're going to study hall and you're traveling during the week, and you're you know, you're obviously going to practice and like, there's all these obligations, and so like, it's a full time job. And so, if you're not enjoying it, and you're not playing, or you're not participating, because you're not as good as somebody else, like, that's gonna, I think, lead you to question like, why am I doing this? And I think that that's a healthy exercise. Just because being an athlete is such a big part of your identity, I get it, but at the same time, like, does it really make sense for me to continue on here, if I don't really enjoy it? And I think that's like taboo, you know, like, a lot of kids would never even think that or even have that conversation. And it's scary to think that kids aren't willing to talk to their parents about stuff, because they're afraid of what they're gonna get back, you know, they just kind of keep it to themselves, or you know, like, I'm just gonna put my head down and empower through.
[00:32:32] Barb Smith: Yeah, there's a lot of cases where it's you know, their luck, their choice is determined by somebody other than themselves. And so it's not, there's this ownership, there's no ownership, there's no investing in themselves. And so, you know, it's a 50, 50 chance that that's going to work out, maybe even less than that, I don't know. But you know, if we could all just remember that it is just sports, and it is so fun. And so good for you in so many ways that when everything else clouds, that that vision, it can get really ugly really fast, and instead of what should shouldn't couldn't be.
[00:33:21] Mike: Yeah. And I mean, obviously, I agree with you on that. I think it's really important to continue to sort of put that message out there as much as sometimes I think it gets kind of lost in the mail. But so how much talk about the work that you do with parents specifically? Like, what are some of the things that you're trying to educate parents on? What are some of the, that's the right word, just the pushback you might get from a parent or some of the skepticism? Or is there any of that, or are parents you know, open to the education process?
[00:33:56] Barb Smith: Once they see what's happening, and once they, you know, see their daughter, start finding her voice and about her decisions and understanding, hey, I need to ask these people for this and these people for this, but not ask everybody for everything in this process. And it's zeroed out, and what do I really need and want and who can I go to and where are my resources. And when she has all that armor, she can do this, she can find a place your student athlete can find the right place. And parents see that that's working. They're willing to be in the backseat and I had a couple parents, you know, partway through, say, Okay, now it's time for me to start, you know, calling people and I told this father, I said, if you start doing that, it's gonna, you're gonna get it all back and you're going to be doing it again, instead of allowing her to keep doing that she's doing this right. And he said, Yeah, I said, just trust me if you will stay out of the way. She'll finish it. And, and she did and he said, you know, you're right. And it is just about that. So it's sort of like the coach trusting the player, it's the parent trusting the student athlete, the child. And if they truly want to do it, they will if your decision that she is going to play, so you let them out there and they don't do it, that's another sign.
[00:35:27] Mike: Right. I'm so good. I'm so glad that you said that, right? Because I think at the end of the day, if we ever, if we really want to be great at anything we do, but sports, it has to be our choice, right? It has to be armed, we have to be motivated to do it on our own. Because otherwise, it's not sustainable. It's like, you know, with my own children, I'll go back to that. Because if my son or daughter doesn't want to do something, and I forced them to do it, they're just going to be going through the motions, as much as I want them to continue on, because I think that they could be have the potential to be something bigger, better. You know, should I push them? I don't know. But I know that if they're not invested in the process of like, spending the time and energy to do this, like, it's a waste of everybody's time and money and whatever else, and they gotta want it. And sometimes you got to get out of the way and let them figure it out as much as it's maybe painful to watch them.
[00:36:29] Barb Smith: Yeah, that's for parents. I know that's tough. And that's where, you know, you just have to, you have to go a little higher, not okay, unless the situation is harmful to her, like life or his life, that’s different.
[00:36:48] Mike: Yeah, if she is in danger. Exactly.
[00:36:50] Barb Smith: Whatever, but if it's her learning something, it's her struggling a little bit that I think is very powerful. And she'll get better at, you know, navigating that stuff, because life is gonna be somewhat of a struggle. And you know, one is the right one, will they learn it? If they don't learn it through sport, I mean, or through growing up, even parents are always going to step in front of that.
[00:37:19] Mike: Are there common themes or common challenges that you see with young women, high school age women who’re going through the process?
[00:37:26] Barb Smith: One of the biggest issue is confidence. I think young females, for whatever reason, sports is supposed to be enhancing confidence. But I believe that, because they're not able to drive their own process, because they're not able to make their own decisions, because they won't or can't, or somebody won't let them somehow it's impacted their confidence. And I think social media has also really impacted not only girls, boys too, but definitely young female athletes with, you know, the way you're supposed to look and talk and act and, you know, we it's gotten bad, I think, social media, and I'm not sure how to fix that, or stop that, except to teach kids how to use it. And where to stay off it and be careful to the like, and all those things that are so important. You know, I mean, we even do that with them anyways, because if you're past College, and you're looking for jobs, W post is not going away, even if you try to make it go away, all out there. But I think those are real tough issues for girls.
[00:38:44] Mike: I mean, listen, it doesn't surprise me. And I've heard that in many different contexts in terms of young women struggling with their confidence. And I think there's a lot of reasons why that is. And maybe we're not going to get into all those reasons here today. But I think it's important, right? So like in terms of your role in the recruiting process, and helping them like what are some of the things that you might suggest or you might bring to their attention to help to increase their confidence?
[00:39:12] Barb Smith: Well, what we do is open up a whole different world of how to think about things. And we, you know, sit down with them just like this, and we just talk about things and you know, this assessment, we go over it, you know, and they get to identify what their own obstacles are. And then we work on those things. It's a very personal process for each person because everybody's process and everybody's journey, everybody's resources, everything is different. So there isn't a one size fits all template for the recruiting process. If you're going to really get in there. I mean, you know, people right now think that all you need to do is get on a club team. That's all you have to do. back and wait and you know, that's another huge misnomer that, you know, if you truly want to find a place, there's so much more exposure shouldn't drive the process, the person should drive the process, let exposure drive it, you're sitting and waiting. And then by the time that you get seen, you get recruited, it's rush to try to figure everything else out. And most of its just shelved anyways. And then you get there as a college freshman and you, you don't know why it's not working. Because you didn't, you weren't able to give it the time that needed.
[00:40:35] Mike: So are you finding or like, are you having success getting access or getting introduced to players at a younger age, like starting in the freshman sophomore type of year, or is it more people coming to you later on junior senior year, sort of in a frenzy to try to get started with?
[00:40:55] Barb Smith: It started with people more you know, later. But now, as we're talking about this to get an earlier is, it's just starting. And so we have like, real short packages, even like, you know, just come through for, you know, four or five quick phone calls and we'll have you on the right path to doing this on your own. And, you know, some of them have good, helpful coaches, and some of them don't have helpful coaches. And some of them have, you know, parents who've played and some of them have parents who have no idea. And so it's just again, there's just so many, everybody's resources are a little different. So we empower them to figure out which resources they want to use and then we teach the resources how to help them.
[00:41:41] Mike: Yeah, exactly, like train the trainer type stuff. Okay, you're there all the time, here's what you need to do. But I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's the way I that's the way I approach my coaching is everybody is different, and there is no one size fits all. And a lot of it is personalized. And to your point, even more importantly, is they're telling you what they think they need to get better at, because that goes back to motivation. If they believe that this is something they need to get better at, it's almost like if somebody thinks it's their idea, they're going to, and they’re going to stick with it more than if you tell them to do something. If they're telling you like, this is what I need to get better at, they're probably going to work on what they need to get better at, get better at it versus like me saying to you like this is what you need to do, which is what they get 90% of the time. You need to do this or else. And then it's like, they tune you out or be like, you know, you're wrong, just because. So it's really important. I've had a couple of other gentlemen that I know, here in New Jersey, where I live who have a similar type of business to you. And they work mostly with baseball players and males, and they've kind of expanded but it's the same approach is very holistic, like consultative approach of like, Hey, what's going to fit for you? What do you need to get to where you want to go, like, being honest with the player in saying, like, you know, you want to go to Division One, but maybe you're not a division one player, like, here's what you should be looking at. Like this very honest approach that's resource driven, versus saying, like, Oh, we're gonna get you an offer, and get you placed, and put it all on the result. And you might lead them down the wrong path, just because you're trying to get, you know, an offer which is completely out of your control.
[00:43:24] Barb Smith: All right. And I think anybody that, you know, promises to get an offer, or even promises roster spots is a flag. And I think families think twice about signing up with people who aren't in it to really help this individual find a fit. And like I said, there's so many ways to do that. But you know, my approach is, I'm a teacher, I've always been a teacher. So it's like, if I just show you how to do a layup, by watching it on film, you might be able to replicate it. But if I can teach you how to put this foot in front of this foot, and where to put this knee and you know, we're armed, if I can show you all that, you able to do it without even having seen it. I mean, you can do it. So it's like breaking the recruiting process all the way down to like, here's the first step. And here's the second step. And there's so doable, and we make it fun. So the kids enjoy it. And they and they learn and they're doing it on their own eventually.
[00:44:35] Mike: What would you say is one way or what's a way that you trying to…?
[00:44:37] Barb Smith: And I give them a hard time. And so we get on like this and you know, we meet often and often and give them homework and they come back and you know, we talked about it and you know, give them fun projects to do. How to make it fun to talk to this person? You know, and like you said, practice, we practice, and just have a good time with it. And you know, they've got school, they've got other sports and so we want to be a fun sidebar not something they have to show up to.
[00:45:16] Mike: Excellent. That makes sense to me. So as we wind down, the one question I always ask everybody at the end in some similar form is, if there's one piece of advice that you'd have to give to, I'd say a family in your case, like if there is a family listening, a parent or student athlete, or both who are listening about or listening to this, what's the one piece of advice you'd give them about the process of student athlete?
[00:45:49] Barb Smith: I would say you know, keep the main thing, the main thing. And by that, I mean, just, you know, let it become let it organically become what it's supposed to be with your student athlete, instead of trying to force it, force it in, he or she into a certain sport or force into a certain team or, you know, force into a certain position on to a certain college or, you know, let it grow organically, and just water it, and it will flourish in by it, I'm talking about their children, and families in the recruiting process is hard. It's challenging, it's hard to navigate. But if you can break it down and learn how to do it, parents becoming advocates for their student athlete and student athletes driving their own process, you'll be amazed at what can happen.
[00:46:44] Mike: Okay. All right, I'll ask you one more question then. Because I think that's aligned with everything that you've talked about here in the last 45 minutes or so. So for parents in this is specific to parents, if parents are going to be the advocate and are gonna step back and let the student athlete take ownership? What's the one thing that they should work on as parent to do that?
[00:47:11] Barb Smith: Put the hands off the wheel, You know, when you're watching a fight, when you want to fight for your child, ask yourself, is this a time where when I'm just trying to make them happy, or is it a time when they're in trouble? Like you know, you're talking about before. Am I danger, or am I just trying to help their happiness because of its, answer number two, then you've got to keep your hands off and step back and see again, just, there's something good is going to is going to come out of this if it's a struggle, or whatever, and you're strengthening that person so that they'll be able to handle life later on.
[00:47:55] Mike: That's a great way to end it. So Barbara, I want to thank you for coming on. I really enjoyed our conversation. It was great seeing you again. And hopefully we can keep talking, and do it some time.
[00:48:04] Barb Smith: I would love that. And you know, we're gonna get you on our show too. That'll be the next thing we'll get to our conversations. You've obviously done this for a long time now, and you've got a great business going. But you're, you know, above all that, and you've got a family too, but you're helping so many, so many people. And I know that we can you know if all of us work together, we can really only help these kids find the right place, but help them enjoy it when they get there because they'll come in more prepared.
[00:48:39] Mike: Thank you, I appreciate you saying that. And it is for me, it's absolutely about helping, you know, helping these young people get to where they want to go. And if you, what I've learned too is that kids spot a phony from a mile away. If you're genuine with them, and you come into it with good intentions in yourself, they'll come towards you, you know, because they know you have their best interests at heart. And I think those of us who are sort of fall into that bucket need to just keep chugging away. You know, what is a very challenge system in that prospect?
[00:49:18] Barb Smith: Well, I found that parents both are, they're open for guidance they want, they want help, and most of them are very coachable. All right.
[00:49:33] Mike: That's great. Well, Barb, thank you again. I appreciate you coming on.
[00:49:38] Barb Smith: All right. Thanks so much.
[00:49:40] Mike: I will talk to you soon. Thank you.