How my recovery journey led me to sport psychology
I started a very intimate relationship with gambling at the age of 12. A combination of social, emotional, and financial factors allowed that relationship to become dysfunctional soon after I started gambling. The compulsion to gamble progressed over time through many stressful life transitions, including going to college, getting married, and having children.
At the age of 37, I made an active choice to stop gambling when my mental health began to deteriorate significantly. My gambling led to the weight of guilt and anxiety crashing down on me. I knew that my behavior was no longer sustainable.
My recovery process started in July 2012 and after stabilizing my life in the early years, I concluded that I wanted to pursue a more meaningful professional life. I was inspired that I received from others in my recovery program who asked for NOTHING in return. After much research and deliberation, I decided that sport psychology would offer me the unique opportunity to combine my love of sports and deep desire to help young people.
In Episode 47, I talk about how gambling impacted my life through adolescence and adulthood. Ultimately, I found a new way of thinking and living through recovery. I have become committed to the prospect of helping young people become their best through mental training.
This episode is very personal to me. I hope that my story inspires others to ask for help when they need it and to know that it is never too late to choose a career that you love.
To learn HOW mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than AGAINST you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back soon for Episode 48!
00:01.57
mvhuber
Hey, everyone it's Mike Huber host and founder of the freshman foundation podcast hope you're doing well today this is ah a little bit of a different episode typically I have a guests that I interview on the podcast to talk about. Um, their experiences and expertise in the athletic transition space. But ah today it's going to be a solo episode and it's ah ah, kind of a special episode to me and maybe a little bit self-indulgent. But since I choose how this podcast goes I'm going to. Take the opportunity to use the platform to talk about myself today and some of the things that I've been through and hopefully I can tie that back to um, the the theme and the meaning of the podcast and how it applies. But. Um, recording this episode on October Third Twenty Twenty two which is exactly 10 years to the day. The last time I made a bet and so I am a recovering compulsive gambler with exactly 10 years abstinence from gambling and ten plus years in um, the process of recovery recovery program which I'm very grateful for and is something that I am very proud of um and I wanted to share about that and in a long form way today.
01:31.78
mvhuber
I'm also dedicating this episode to my mother who passed away just a couple days ago she was in pretty poor health and um the last few months have been really difficult. Um, and I think she's in a better place at this point. But um I want to dedicate it to her. Um, she made a lot of sacrifices in her life for me to do the things that I wanted to do particularly when I was younger as it relates to being an athlete and drove me a lot of places and. Parted with a lot of money that we probably couldn't afford to part with and spent a lot of time watching games and just being ah my biggest supporter and um, you know I think it's a really important job that us as parents have.
02:27.65
mvhuber
To play that role. Um in our kids' lives and you know certainly I think there's ah ah a right way and a wrong way to do it or a better way and a not so good way to do it. Um to be a sports parent and I think you know by and large my mother was really good. Um, because she was just.
02:47.61
mvhuber
Concerned that I was getting the most out of the experience and and that I was having fun and that I was doing things the right way. Um, and you know I passed that on to my own kids today and so again I want to dedicate the episode to her. Um, and i'm. To talk very honestly about my own um journey not only as a gambler specifically. But how that has affected my life and affected my life in so many different ways and so I guess to start. Um you know I started gambling at a very young age. Um I was probably I was eleven years old not quite 12 when I made my first sports bed and so I was a kid who was obsessed with sports. Um, not only playing sports but statistics and watching them I mean I watched every single yankee game I could every single night um I watched every single giant's game I could every Sunday um I watched the knicks and the islanders I just watch sports all the time and i. Found myself escaping into sports at a very young age as a way to cope with some of the things that were going on in my house and um I just found great comfort in it and was always something that I just loved and I you know i.
04:20.30
mvhuber
I dreamt of playing baseball in college you know somewhere far away and warm in California and and that was at a very young age and I wrote stories about you know, becoming a professional athlete. Um, when I was in my teenage years and sort of fantasized about. Where sports could take me and it was just such a big part of my life and part of my identity. Um, and unfortunately that included gambling. Um it was something that came pretty naturally to me in the sense that um, my love for sport. Kind of pulled me into it I lived in a home where it was fairly acceptable to gamble I looked up to adult role models male role models who gambled and it was commonplace. It wasn't taboo it wasn't frowned upon it was frankly, it was embraced. And it became a way for me to um bridge a gap with male family members my father and uncle and others. Um through my childhood and a lot of the time the things that I did with. My father were related to gambling whether it was watching sports or you know watching horse racing and gambling on horse racing or betting on sports or talking about bets and um you know it was it was normal and um it was important to me and and I really.
05:53.86
mvhuber
Wanted to be good at it so that I could show that I was you know I was smart and that I knew what I was talking about and I had something to connect with and you know I learned how to read? Ah, um, if if you're familiar with horse horse racing a racing form at a very young age. It's a newspaper with all of the. Statistical data for each you know, horses horse that was running in a race and I learned how to read it I learned how to interpret it I formulated my own theories and philosophies about how to handicap horse races and that's something I did in my teen years and did no very gleefully and I took great pride in it. And it's something I took great pride in until the day I stopped gambling and so I guess I say this all to say is that it was really I was immersed I was immersed in the behavior at times I was obsessed with it. Um, and it was just always a way to so escape from reality and that would be a common theme in my life. Um, from the time I started till the time I stopped gambling at the age of 37 and so I relate it back to the you know the theme of the podcast which is you know transitions are hard for anybody. You know we talk about athletic transitions and how they're hard for athletes whether it's you know. Moving up in level um or having to retire or having to go through ah a significant injury. Um, but those those transitions are really hard and a lot of times we aren't prepared for them and we don't know how to cope with them.
07:29.44
mvhuber
And that was sort of the you know the that was sort of the the theme of my gambling Behavior. You know at times as I sort of you know, found my way through adolescence you know gambling was something that helped me deal with um. Family turmoil. It helped me deal with Insecurity. It helped me deal with um, you know, just a lot of things and um, it was something that I really took to it made me feel. It made me Numb. It made me not feel. Um, I should say and a lot of times. It was just a way to to escape but at the same time I was making really poor choices and putting myself into positions even at an early age where I was you know losing money that I didn't have and I was unable to stop myself From. Gambling Um, you know when I was in situations where I didn't have any money to gamble I gambled Anyway. Um, and I had very little self-control and it was very shameful because you know I didn't want to be perceived as a loser I was super Competitive. Um. But I always just kept going. You know not knowing when to stop and you know that was indicative of my high school years you know and then you know as somebody who played 3 sports in high school and took great pride in it and it was pretty good at what I did for the most part. Um.
09:03.12
mvhuber
I started in high school for 3 years in football and 2 years in baseball and I captain both those teams and um, you know I was a good athlete solid athlete and I took it very seriously and was very important to me. Um.
09:21.14
mvhuber
And that was a huge part of my life and then when that ended in 9093 when I graduated from high school I didn't go on to play college sports and frankly I think that that's a tremendous regret of mine and. There were a lot of reasons I think why I didn't play one is you know I didn't really have the the understanding of the recruiting Process. You know my parents at that point hadn't really gone through a traditional higher Education. You know my father didn't really have much college and my mother. Graduated from college the same year I graduated from ah high school so she went back to school later in life and so my parents didn't really understand forget about recruiting but they didn't understand college and how it worked and they didn't understand where to go and what to do It was really a ah very um.
10:15.68
mvhuber
You know, very raw process for me and I just sort of was throwing darts and you know recruiting was just not something on my radar I didn't know how to get noticed or I just thought somebody was going to show up at my door. Um you know and I you know we had some recruiting visits general recruiting visits from schools and. I submitted some paperwork and I got some letters but nothing of substance and I just didn't really know what to do with it and um the truth of the matter is is that if we were more educated and if we had better coaches if my parents knew more and had more money resources to. Put toward the process. Yeah could I have gone on to play college baseball probably I probably wouldn't have played college football but I definitely could have played college baseball as I see it today I mean you know there there are kids out there going to play college baseball I've played against guys in adulthood who were in their you know. My thirty s against guys who were division one college players and x pros and you know I never felt overwhelmed by it and I think I was that kind of player in high school where I could have probably played division 3 or division 2 baseball. Um you know and been competent. You know for 4 years but I missed out on that and I think that that. Was a real regret and then when I moved on to college you know I sort of lost this really big part of my identity which was was being an athlete you know I I had a lot of free time. Um I didn't have a lot of friends I went to college in a faraway place where I I didn't have any relationships i.
11:45.34
mvhuber
Didn't know then but I know now that I'm an introverted person and then I don't make friends very easily and I have difficulty trusting people at an intimate level and it was just a really perfect storm for somebody like me to to struggle socially. Um. You know my first year I didn't really have many friends at all. Um, it just was a huge transition I was learning how to to be a student really for the first time in my life and I had to get a job to make ends meet you know week to week and um, it was just a really hard thing. It wasn't the. Fun. You know sort of process that most people think of when you go to college. Oh it must be so much fun. You at a Michigan state. It's got to be such a good time and it wasn't much of a part here and I didn't really drink and I didn't really want to drink or go out or do those things and so um, it. And that respect was it was it really a good fit for me. No probably not but I just didn't really know any better. Um, and then my second year there you know I went back and I didn't never thought about not going back and never thought about quitting or transferring or anything like that I you know I I was going to stick it out in the second year I I did find some. Some friends that I could rely on and trust but I also found friends that like 2 you know that like to gamble like me and um, that eased that second year and made me feel much more normal because I was going to the casino and to the racetrack and.
13:16.68
mvhuber
Reading books about horse racing with my friend and um it was like I was home again and you know that really helped me it was a great coping mechanism and um, you know the homesickness and the um. You know and and the concerns about money and you know the concerns about fitting in kind of went away but at the same time I was creating many of the same problems that I experienced later in life as a result of my gambling I was in debt. Um. I was you know I was at times I was you know unstable you know, emotionally very you know very difficult times where I would come home and it's the first time in my life. You know it was probably 19 or 20 when I admitted I had a problem was a way of college and we had come home from a late night at the casino um you know and it was sun was probably way up. It was probably eight nine o'clock in the morning and I had lost more money than I could have afford to lost and I couldn't stop myself like literally physically could not stop myself until I had no other um you know. Assets to exhaust at that point I couldn't get any more money I just was stuck like I ran myself into a hole and I couldn't get out of it and I came home and I just remember breaking down to a friend saying like I have a problem I need to get help and that was you know probably.
14:50.70
mvhuber
20 years before I stopped gambling or close to it so I went on for quite some time knowing that I had a problem but never really wanting to address it because at that point gambling was more productive and more beneficial to me than ah. You know it was more productive for my life than it would be you know without it if I don't know what I would have done without it at that point and so I kind of pushed on and you know. It was it. It was a boring It's a boring story in the sense that it was very repetitive and it wasn't like I was losing millions of dollars and I wasn't jetsetting to you know, fancy places I was a grinder I was a college kid with a bad habit and. Not a lot of money and it was just a very very pathetic and sad existence. You know the irony of it is is I did really well in school and I worked a full-time almost a full-time schedule and I you know I had two semesters where I had a three point Nine Gpa and I graduated with honors and I got accepted to. University of Chicago you know public policy school and I was a really good student and I was able to to excel academically even in the midst of you know this? you know problem behavior that was my first love. But I was also obsessed with.
16:13.48
mvhuber
Generating good grades and having a good academic career and I wanted to go on to get you know something bigger and I did that but it it really again was ah a case of me not understanding like myself or how to really? um. Advocate for myself because I thought that I I wanted to go into public policy I wanted to go into government but the truth is I always wanted to go into so do something in sports and I never 1 understood again. It was almost like the recruiting process I never really understood what it would take or how I would get a job in sports I mean. At the time you know twenty five years ago it was very different um than it would be today but you know surely still competitive and you know having parents and and who don't really know much of anything and I came from a place where I was like well I had to make money I didn't have a choice about. You know going into a career where I didn't make much money because somebody was going to back me up I I didn't have that option I had student loan debt. Um, and I had to you know, go out and make as much money as possible. So I was always pointed toward a career where I thought I could make money. Um. And that's kind of what I did you know I just kind of put money first and um, did very well in grad school and I finished 9099 and came back to New York in in 2000 and um, you know I never really completely stopped gambling but there were definitely.
17:44.50
mvhuber
Years where I didn't do it as much I started to um, go out more and be more social in my early 20 s and I'd like to go out and have a good time and I picked that up at some point. Um and I still bet on football games and I still bet on horses here and there but I didn't have like a full-time. You know, obsession addiction to gambling you know at that point and so I had other things in my life but I still had so some of those same issues of you know you know trying to fit in and trying to you know, look good and but. Make people think that I was okay and that you know I was I was always putting on a show for people and I never really showed who I was for real in my life. Um, and that's something that I've learned in the last ten years of recovery is that it's okay to be who I am. And to not be ashamed of that and by sharing about myself and knowing myself in ah in an honest way and sharing about myself. You know it helps other people. Um not everybody understands it you know why? Why did you gamble and you know what made you do these things and how could you and. But was it so important but they understand the vulnerability of being able to say like hey I had a problem and like I didn't really get it. You know I didn't really get myself and I was in denial and so you know I continued again like I said I continued to gamble through my 20 s and you know.
19:19.50
mvhuber
30 early 30 s when I got married and I always gambled and my ex-wife knew I gambled but it was it was more recreation than obsession. You know I probably lost money more money than I needed to or should or could um but it also wasn't an everyday thing for me at that point. Um, and it wasn't until another really significant transition in my life that I started to gamble um, much more substantially so when my first child was born. My son Patrick was born and um, ah on October thirty first to 2008 um changed my life you know it changed my life in a really good way. Um, you know obviously I I love my children and that was one of the greatest days of my life is when he was born and um, but I I also didn't really understand that the process of bringing a child into the world is really hard and. You know my mother's face you know, post partum trauma you know sometimes and there's a depression that comes with it and and I think I kind of fell into the same bucket. You know like I didn't was worried that I wasn't going to have much of a social life i. Didn't know like what exactly I was supposed to do only thinking that the expectation was that I needed to like you know, dedicate my whole life to being a father um and being you know an income winner and you know it just.
20:51.60
mvhuber
Was overwhelming more so than I ever realized and so at that point you know I started to gamble I made a conscious choice I mean it. It seemed it sounds you know it sounds crazy. But at that point I made a conscious choice to gamble every day. Um, for a lot of reasons one. It was a form of entertainment and I feel it felt like well if I gamble like I'm definitely gonna have something to do gives me something proactive to do I can watch sports at night after the baby goes to bed. Um I Can you know I can.
21:23.52
mvhuber
You know I just I have something to do and um I can maybe make a little bit extra money. You know I started to look at it from a financial perspective like I was working at a a mainly commission. Position at that point in my life and I wanted to make more money and that wasn't coming the economy was in a really bad place at that point in two thousand and eight nine it was a really crappy time if you remember and and I wasn't making a lot of money other than you know a small amount of draw that was coming in and I wanted to to make more money. I wanted to make more money and um and so I justified it as a financial investment and you know it suited me. It was ah a really? um, it was an ideal coping mechanism at least in my mind at that time for. Where I was and um I didn't really understand what I was about to get myself into and so um, the the daily behavior you know it became progressive in nature. You know, whereas in the beginning I had a plan and I had ah you know. Ideas about how it was going to go kind of went out the window. You know the volume of of of bets went up the amount of money that was bet went up. Um the immersion. Ah in the the process was um, all right. Where was crazy.
22:50.36
mvhuber
Um I spent so many hours watching games handicapping games creating spreadsheets. Um, you know I am what I've learned about myself you know is that I'm an all in all or nothing person in a lot of ways you know and it's sort of that that way with you know my business now. Frankly, it's like it's it's like I am all in and I'm not going to stop until I get to where I want to go? Um, and I think I I love that about myself because you know I believe in what I'm doing um but at the same time you know it kind of blinds. Me at times to you know, really step back? Um, and be realistic about what's going on but I was all in and I just did some crazy shit. You know I would stay up late at night and watch basketball or whatever was on football baseball.
23:46.63
mvhuber
Until after midnight on a worknight I'd get up early I'd handicap games for the next day yeah you know I would stay at work late in my office at work and in Manhattan and you know pretend like I was working but really I was like handicapping. Games in the afternoons like and got my seven o'clock bets in and then after seven o'clock I stayed and tried to catch up on work while I was watching the games on you know the internet. Um, there were days where you know I had gotten so um, hooked on making the bet and the processed habit loop of making a bet every day that i. Couldn't like stop myself from betting you know like I couldn't physically like there were days where I was so exhausted from gambling and I just couldn't stop myself because I was like well what if I don't bet and what if it wins and I need to win and I can't afford to lose and you know I'm at a stick to my process and I can't you know and it was just like this insanity. And um, it was that way for every day for 4 years literally every single day I was committed to this process and in the beginning it was commitment to ah what I thought was a really logical and um. And sound process and at the end it became just an addiction and a you know, completely delusional chase for you know money and self-esteem and trying to cover up the lies and deceit and deception. Um, you know that I had sort of.
25:15.78
mvhuber
Um, directed toward my ex-wife and um, it was like this spiral and you know I now I I work at um, part of what I do in my work as I speak at colleges to student athletes about the dangers of problem gambling and um.
25:34.33
mvhuber
You know one of the things that I I talked about talk about um you know in those sessions is like just the the depths of of my willingness to to lie and to to cheat and to.
25:53.24
mvhuber
Steal at the behavior was so um, overwhelming and so all-encompassing that I would basically say or do anything to get out of the problem and one of the things that comes with that for a lot of compulsive gamblers is turning to suicide And. Gambling has the rate highest rate of suicide of any addiction and that's something I talk about a lot and I think a lot of people don't really can't can't really relate to that because if you're not a problem gambler and gambling is very different than other sort forms of addictive behavior because they're. Very rarely outward signs that somebody has a gambling problem. It's not like doing drugs or drinking. You could see it. You could smell it you you know, somebody's impaired with gambling. You just can't tell I mean they're acting maybe a little crazy and you know they have bad a's or they're cranky and I was irritable and frustrating and. Angry and nasty and all those things but there was no outward sign that it was tied to gambling and what it ends up doing is it ends Up. You know, eating you away inside because you don't want to come clean about all of the um. Shameful behavior that you're you're partaking in but at the same time it it gives ah the people around you a sense that they're going crazy and it's a really really toxic and really sad um existence and I never I talk about this in my in my talks at the colleges I never.
27:24.59
mvhuber
Got to the point where I contemplated suicide. Thankfully um I had gotten to ah a bottom enough of a bottom that I I was I was willing to come clean and I'll talk about that. Um, but I think if I would have kept gambling the way I did. And it wasn't because of the money necessarily at that point. Although it could have been eventually. It was just it was just not wanting to admit, you know that I had a problem and that I thought that I was in control of everything and that. Didn't need to say anything or do anything to make other people happy and that I was in the right and it was very self-centered and it was very delusional and it was very you know so it was sick I was a sick person and. You know it was really hard. Um, but when I when I got to the bottom. It was a revelation that um I didn't want to do it anymore and just like everything else in my life I was all or nothing and when I decided finally that I was going to stop. And was going to come clean. It was a commitment to stay clean and to not gamble again. Um I know a lot of people who've stopped gambling for short periods of time for long periods of time and then they go back to it. Um, and that's not to say that I can't go back to it. But um.
28:57.64
mvhuber
And it's part of the reason why I do what I do and why I talk about my addiction so freely is that it's ah it's a roadblock. It's ah it's a deterrent because people know if they know who I am and what I'm capable of it's really harder to get get over on them. Um, and then when I decided that I was going to quit I was going to quit and I wasn't going to let anybody call me a failure in in the process of quitting and so I was committed to it and what got me there was I I had a massive panic attack. And June of 2012 so just about a month before I made my last real bet. Um I was driving my car on the New Jersey turnpike and I had this. Episode that I'd never experienced before but basically I thought I was having a stroke because all the blood rushed from my brain and um I got very dizzy I got lightheaded I couldn't focus and I thought I was going to die. Um, and so I I somehow. Myself or pulled over to the side of the road and you know stopped the car. It was very very scary and I got out of the car and I was having these dizzy spells and I didn't know what was going on and then I tried to I switched with I was I stopped driving the car and i.
30:26.35
mvhuber
You know I so I kept having these spells you know, even when I was driving and I thought oh well, it's not that big of a deal and but it kept happening and so it kind of freaked me out and so I went to a hospital and I was in the hospital for six or seven hours and there was nothing wrong with me physically and that was the first of probably 3 or 4 times I've been through that where I've had panic attacks or. Anxiety episodes and I ended up in a hospital and nothing was wrong, but this was the first time so it was the scariest time and I yeah I just didn't know what to do and frankly I didn't really equate the episode with my gambling at First. Um. Had a lot of other things in my life going on that were stressful. Um, and I just assumed it was them and not gambling. But um, the episodes continued and so it was affecting my daily life I was having these sort of mini panic attacks if well where I get real dizzy and fuzzy and I'd lose my balance or where I get. You know, whatever and um, this is happening at work and I was scared to like sort of be at work and it was just really hard. Um, so I decided that I was going to go see a therapist and and that was one of the best decisions I ever made in my life. Um, because. Led me to really get comfortable with the idea of coming clean and but in the first couple of sessions maybe 2 or 3 sessions I didn't tell my therapist ah that I had a gambling problem I talked about my work and how stressful work was and I work was stressful, but.
31:59.40
mvhuber
I made it that way I just couldn't cope. Um and how stressful my marriage was and you know that was stressful too. But I couldn't cope and a lot of it was related to the gambling and I didn't think that that was the cause. But I think after I gave it some more thought I realized that that it was. Um, and then once I I verbalized it to my therapist. You know then I knew it was like that was going to be the end. You know there's nothing I could do about it and it started the process started the wheels turning about like hey I need to to think about really so stopping this behavior and so um. Leading up to a family vacation in July of 2012 I really contemplated like hey this is it like I'm going to stop? Um I'm going to stop at least for this vacation because I had ruined a number of family vacations in the in the previous years because of my gambling I wouldn't. Be social I wouldn't want to hang out I'd be reading books about college football and pro football and handicapping for the fall and watching horse races and in the the rental property while people with the family was at the beach and just as a mess and um I told myself I was going to ruin this. 2012 vacation I was going to not gamble and and I was going to see how it went and for the most part that's exactly what happened I didn't gamble. Um, for most of the week um and
33:28.24
mvhuber
Aside from one day the second day the vacation. The first day I didn't gamble the second day I did gamble and after the second bet that I made in the evening on Sunday it was a baseball game between Texas ranges and Los Angeles angels after that second bet. Um, that was it. Just decided it was over and I spent the rest of the week clean as a whistle like engaged present like like a like ah like a weight it had been lifted off my shoulders. But as the week went on I also started to realize like now I want this to be permanent. Um, now I'm going to have to deal with it and that started creating a lot of anxiety and I broke down towards the end of the week and I told my ex-wife she was my wife time I told her I said you know I'm really gambling I started crying I was reading this book that sort of kind of opened me up to the idea of coming clean and that. You know the fact that I was an addict wasn't my fault because of my family situation all this stuff and I came clean to her and she knew I gambled but she didn't know the extent of it and so when I kind of broke down she was you know like supportive and she kind of you know she was okay, you know she was like it's okay, it's okay and then when we came home. Were talking about buying a house together in New Jersey and like that was when I really was like okay I cannot one I'm going to get caught from a money perspective but 2 like I can't let this person like think that everything's okay and we're going to go buy a house and and you know.
35:01.83
mvhuber
And I've been lying to her for the last four years and so I broke down and told her the truth and it was painful. I mean I thought she was going to leave me I was just like so overwhelmed though I just didn't see any way out other than to to come completely clean and I did and that's you know it started. Um. Started me on the road to recovery I mean the marriage was definitely in shambles for probably six months we didn't talk much she was in shock and she didn't trust me I I started going to meetings the day after I told her I went to my first gamblers anonymous meeting on July I think it was Twenty Ninth of 2012 in Brooklyn New York in the basement of a church and I wanted to prove that I was serious that I was serious about stopping and when I walked into the room I knew exactly even though the people there were nothing like me on that day. I knew exactly where I needed to be based upon what they were saying I could relate to their experiences about gambling and what it did to them and how it affected their lives and how it made them feel and I just was like yeah this is where I belong and so. From there. It just became something I again immersed myself into I I started going to you know and not right away but you know within a few months I started going to 2 3 meetings a week and I was you know very active in my program. I.
36:31.54
mvhuber
Spoke up a lot and I really paid attention and I had a sponsor and I worked really hard at doing the things that were being asked to me so that I could get better. Um, and I I put everything I could into that and that first year was really hard because I had to learn how to live without gambling and I had to learn. To be patient because my ex-wife didn't trust me and I had to you know, really navigate that transition in a healthy way and I did because I had people around me who supported me no matter what you know in my program and I was talking to a therapist and I was talking to my sponsor every day and I was. Going to meetings and I was doing the the things that I needed to do to get better. Um, which was great and I was all in on it. But you know it was a long road and I stopped watching sports for a while in that year and even passed and that was very. Difficult to accept at first but it was something that was asked to me and I ended up doing it and it and it worked for me, you know I was a little stubborn at times. But you know when I made it to my first anniversary in Gamblers Anonymous and I had my ex-wife and and friends there to celebrate with me. Um, it was. 1 of the greatest feelings I ever had. It was like this amazing accomplishment that was so genuine and so much me rather than it being about impressing other people. There was only people there that gave a shit or the people that had been sitting there for the last year like listening to my sob stories.
38:01.89
mvhuber
You know and watching me go through the process of like getting honest and you know, um I wasn't trying to impress anyone I was just being myself. You know I wasn't trying to like worry about people who were judging me I just was open and honest and I could be myself in that that place and you know. It was. It's something I never experienced because I think a lot of my gambling was about appearances. It was not only about making myself feel better, but it was also making other people think that I was a big shot or or better than I was or smarter than I was or. Whatever it is or maybe I wanted them to like me or I want whatever it is like I just this is the first time my life life I've truly felt like myself and so you know I went through my first 2 or 3 years 4 years of recovery just on that track of like hey just be a better person. Get your shit together like try to get things to slow down. Um, but eventually I I needed something more and that's when I started to think about a new career and I started exploring career ideas I didn't really know what I wanted to do but I knew I wanted to do something where I was able to help others in my life. Um, and passed forward some of the help that I'd gotten from other people in my program and my therapist and whoever um, the career coach that helped me I wanted to pass it forward and and and then I started to realize that like hey I always wanted to do something in sports like now's the chance.
39:34.70
mvhuber
So when I put those 2 things together and I did the work and it took it didn't take 2 2 weeks or two months it probably took me like 2 years to get to the point where I was ready to pull the trigger and I really knew exactly what I wanted to do so it was a process. It was not I woke up one day and said hey I want to go into sports psychology like I had to really think through like is this. What's best for me and what do I want this to look like and you know I wanted to I wanted to work in sports and I wanted to help people and I felt like this was the best way to do it. Um, and so I made a plan I yeah. Researched schools I applied to schools I had a financial plan in terms of understanding like you know what it was going to cost versus what we could afford and how long I was going to have to go before I made any money and and all these things because I gave up a really good living in business. Um.
40:28.28
mvhuber
Of really good living in business to to pursue this this opportunity this goal this dream and you know it wasn't an easy decision because you know even though financially we were in a decent place at that point it was a lot of sacrifice and I was I was certainly willing to. And I went through my 3 years of school it was supposed to be 2 it ended up being 3 but you know I've finished as the top student in my class and I received an award and I spoke at my graduation and my kids came to the graduation and I I put everything I had into the. Into the transition. You know I I did probably ah a thousand hour unpaid hours of internship time at a high school and in a consultancy in the city in New York and um I traveled to California to to work in. You know, camps in the summer like I did this all for fray and I paid the school. To get my hours like I paid money and I gave every ounce of blood sweat and tears to be really good at what I do um, hyper committed and um.
41:38.59
mvhuber
You know I just felt really good about that I was so proud of myself and I I learned that through recovery I was able to express myself in a way where it was for me I was doing it for me I wasn't doing it to make somebody else. Happy. Um, and I think it comes out of my work now and I just I'm genuinely interested in helping other people and that always is. Kind of be my north my nose store right? like I have my own problems and things aren't always easy and ah you know it's It's a lot of work and sometimes it's a lot of work for not a lot of return when you have your own business but you know to me, it's worth the risk. You know it's worth the investment and um.
42:17.94
mvhuber
You know it's it's been a couple of years you know since I'm out of school and that that was a big transition too and during that time we went through covid and I went through a divorce and I moved out and. You know away from my kids and like those would have been all really good excuses for me to go back to gambling because historically the reason why I gambled is when things got hard and they changed and I needed some way to cope I would go back to gambling you know, gambling would be the way that I would block it all out and now it's I'm at a point in my life where I'm just. Able to deal with reality. You know when things aren't going my way like I talk to somebody about it and say like hey things aren't going my way and it's not necessarily looking for them to give me a solution or tell me what to do? It's just to have them listen to me. Um, and I usually turn to people in my program for that because they're. The ones that aren't judging me. Um or if I need to make extra money like I'm humble enough to know that like if I want to keep this going. There's just days where I need to you know, do something That's you know below my pay grade and um as a guy with two masters degrees. From highleve institutions and you know guy who's made good six figure salary like I have to do a lot of things that people who are in my position or have been in my position wouldn't necessarily do because their ego. But um, I'm doing it and I'm doing it. You know it's hard. But um.
43:45.97
mvhuber
I'm not willing to risk my recovery my abstinence and my sanity. Um for gambling and I think if anything if there's anything that comes out of this from me I Think about my time speaking to student athletes and. And that's to say like hey not everybody is going to end up like me. But I think there are a lot of people out there who go through times in their lives that you know they're not ready for things that they're not ready for things. They're not prepared for and they turn to behaviors like. Gambling or alcohol or drugs or food or spending whatever it is that you know is your vice like we use that as a way to cope and um sometimes it works you know and that's okay, but if you're not aware that you're using it in that way. That's when it can become. Ah, really a real big problem right? So I think about my think about Athletes. You know the ones that get injured the ones that have to retire from their sport because it's just time to end it or the ones that leave home and go somewhere and they're homesick or they're not performing the way they want to perform or. You know, whatever the case may be or they have a family issue right? like there. There are ways to use those behaviors to to soothe them to soothe soothe yourself to to cope and I think athletes as I found out working you know in my um.
45:19.60
mvhuber
My time with epic risk management as a speaker I've learned that athletes and student athletes in general and athletes particularly are more at risk of developing a gambling addiction for a lot of reasons you know their brains aren't fully formed and they're competitive and they might need money and all these different reasons. But. And don't want them to ever turn to that right? So I'm not saying that by me talking about it or them hearing me talk about it. It's not going to happen or maybe it'll never happen and it has nothing to do with me speaking about it. But I think I'm a big believer in building awareness and so that's part of the reason why I'm recording this today is to help. Someone who's listening build awareness of the behavior whether it's gambling or whatever it is in your life. That's being used as a way a crutch or as ah as something your way to soothe the way you're feeling or to to block out or escape from reality I mean you just need to know it's there so that you can do something about it. And ultimately you know five years ago ten years ago I never would have talked openly about something like this because I would have been worried what other people were going to think of me and that they were going to judge me that I was a loser or you know like. How could you let that happen or how could you do that to your family and like what's your problem you a liear. You're a cheater. Yeah I was like okay like you know what? I'm human I made a lot of mistakes and I didn't frankly know any better or if I did I just you know I just I did what I thought I had to do to.
46:50.85
mvhuber
To make myself survive and there were consequences to those actions and I don't deny it. Um, but at the same time like I'm not going to hide from my past like it's part of it's shaped who I am and I think that that's a message I would take through to any person or any athlete or anybody who's listening to this is that. Don't be ashamed of you know your experiences whether you've made a mistakes or not you are human and if you learn from them and you you share them with other people so they don't make the same mistake or you use them to your advantage and make changes then you know it happened for a reason and that's the way I view my own experience. Um, I've always I've always tried to hold myself to account probably more than I even need to I I tend to blame myself for things first before I ever point a finger at other people even though maybe a lot of times. It's not my fault but it's okay because I can handle it. You know and I know that a lot of people can't and um, sitting here in front of a microphone for what's going to probably amount to almost an hour just telling a story about myself in which you know. 2 wo-thirds of it if not more is is is negative rather than positive and being okay with that like says a lot to me about myself and where I've come to because um, um, my ego is not the same as it was like it's it's about sharing for the benefit of others helping other people. It's not about.
48:23.59
mvhuber
Protecting myself. There's nothing to protect myself from um and you know this is something I've wanted to do for a long time. You know I wanted to share the story in detail. Um, and ah. I knew coming up on 10 years it was something that I was going to do because I wanted to do it and if nobody listens to the podcast. Well then I got to tell my story again in an hour and it helps me to remind myself of what a crazy fuck I was for a long time and and how gambling really affected my life and if it. 1 person listens and gets something out of this then it's definitely worth it. You know there's always some good opportunity that comes out of these the things that I invest in you know and it may not be exactly what I want but you know I wouldn't I wouldn't be um, walking the walk. As a sport psychology professional if I wasn't able to understand that there's just some things I can can control and there's most most things I can't and what I can't control is who listens to my podcasts and how many downloads I get and how much money I make and how big my business gets but what I can control is what I do. Um. And I put every ounce of effort into my work whether it's with a client whether it's into building awareness whether it's generating content that helps people um, whether it's just helping others in general like I'm invested in that.
49:55.98
mvhuber
Um, and if I need to do something differently I'll do it and I'm open to suggestions and I'm not too proud because I know that you know that's just life and I did not think that way when I was gambling I was very black and white I was very much a victim. In the sense that like when things didn't go my way I blamed other people I got angry. Um, it was just a very very sad existence and you know as a father I would never want my own children to be that way and in fact, it's something that I'm very um. Very passionate about as as a parent is saying like hey like you need to take responsibility and look at yourself in the mirror and take responsibility for your part in any matter. Um and whatever that other person does is not up to you. It's not your business and I think kids have a hard time understanding that and I get it. But. I'm not going to stop saying and I'm going to control my piece of things and and let them continue to know that that's the way I feel and hopefully one day it sinks in when they're ready to to internalize it. So um, I'm just really grateful to have the opportunity to share this It's been. Ah, very very rocky 40 so at times in a very rocky 47 years but certainly the last ten years in recovery while wonderful and and I'm so grateful for them. It's been hard. You know I've been through a lot and I think it helps to share these stories. You know for me, it helps.
51:26.16
mvhuber
And hopefully it helps somebody else and um, maybe it helps an athlete you know helps a family. It helps a friend. It helps someone listening to this to know that you know life is hard and sometimes we do things that make us feel better that aren't good for us. But we do it anyway because that's all we have. That's the best we can do. Um and whoever's listening needs to know that I'm here to help them if if they think they need my help. So um I guess I just wanting to get ted off my chest I mean hopefully it wasn't too arduous or boring to listen to 1 person talk for. Fifty plus minutes because that's the reason why I have guests on my show. Um, but this is a special one and I'm going to indulge myself and um, hopefully yeah, hopefully you enjoyed it as well. So I just want to thank you for listening and hopefully you'll be back to listen to the podcast in the future. Thank you so much.