How is Anna Hennings impacting athletes in her second act as a mental performance coach?
During a bit of midlife crisis, I decided that I wanted to impact the lives of young athletes. Pursuing a career change in my early 40s created a lot of uncertainty about where my choice to become a sport psychology professional would lead. However, placing my faith in the process for pursuing a life of purpose paid off.
My guest in this episode, Anna Hennings, has a very similar story. Anna is a Certified Mental Performance Consultant® and private practitioner who focuses on working with volleyball players. She pursued a second career in sport psychology to also live a life of purpose.
In Episode 54, Anna shares about her path to mental performance coaching and her experiences working with young athletes.
So, what’s your biggest takeaway from my conversation with Anna Hennings?
My biggest takeaway is that the mental skills that we teach to athletes are skills that they can use in all facets of life. We, as mental performance coaches, have the privilege to positively impact the lives of young people through our work. My conversation with Anna reinforced that fact.
My suggestion to young athletes is to find joy in the process of growth and improvement. We often must find faith in the process when the outcomes are not exactly what we would like them to be.
I want to thank Anna for her kind generosity and the wisdom she shared with The Freshman Foundation Community.
You can learn more about Anna by visiting her website, https: annahennings.com.
To learn how mental performance coaching can help your mind work FOR you rather than against you, visit https://michaelvhuber.com.
Thank you for listening. We’ll see you back soon for Episode 55!
00:00.85
mvhuber
Anna hi how are you? It's great to see you ah for those of you listening or watching the podcast Anna and I were ah students together at the same time. Although I think she was a bit ahead of me in the program that we both went to for sports psychology. So ah, we're sort of reconnecting here and.
00:03.90
Anna Hennings
I'm doing great how you doing Mike.
00:19.99
mvhuber
We're going to talk to Anna about her own experiences. So I guess to get started. Um, you know like I think we were talking about before we started recording. We both are in our second life second career. So what? what led you to sports psychology.
00:31.86
Anna Hennings
You know my first career was in marketing communication. So I worked for a lot of retailers in the San Francisco bay area writing product copy editing product copy if you ever receive one of those mega. Catalogs in the mail from restoration to hardware I used to proofread those and I hit this point where I really just wanted to do more work with people I felt like I wasn't making the impact in the world I wanted to and so I just went on this journey to rediscover what it was that I wanted to do with my career with my life.
01:04.82
mvhuber
In.
01:08.64
Anna Hennings
Um I didn't think it was writing about products anymore. Um, and I'd always had this interest in psychology. Yeah, my mom is a therapist. My stepdad is um in I O Psychology um a therapist for companies and.
01:11.63
mvhuber
Yeah.
01:22.40
mvhuber
Now.
01:27.96
Anna Hennings
So I saw these different worlds and different options in the how to apply an interest in psychology but I didn't really want to do either of those and so I just kept digging and digging and digging and realized the sport psychology was a field and as a former athlete. It's like.
01:37.16
mvhuber
Yeah.
01:46.23
Anna Hennings
We can work with just athletes like sign me up. This is it. It was just this light bulb moment after quite a while of of digging and researching and thinking and reflecting and then just stumbling upon it and being like the set. This is what I want to do.
02:02.99
mvhuber
Yeah, yeah, and and it's interesting because our and I don't know that I knew that ah like coming into this conversation and I think that our backgrounds are really similar because I did the same thing I sort of got to this point in my career where it was like I don't want to do this anymore like I'm not satisfied. But it was like what do I want to do it when I grow up and after the doing the research and the work it was like this confluence of I want to help people but I would love to help them in the sport context versus maybe being something like a therapist or a psychologist clinical psychologist. So That's I mean it's It's great that we have that commonality. So.
02:20.88
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
02:38.37
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
02:39.20
mvhuber
But so so tell me about the process of deciding to go back to school and what that was like to go back to school after having been working for you know, whatever 10 years
02:50.38
Anna Hennings
Ah, it was certainly a leap you know going from working 9 to 5 working in the city I worked in San Francisco for many years it was a big transition to being a student again. But at the same time I think I was so ready I was so invested in what.
02:55.97
mvhuber
In.
03:07.80
Anna Hennings
We were studying in that program that I just dove right in and loved it. I put everything behind being a student of this new field and really learning as much as I could to support my future self that honestly I. I Loved it. However, how big of a however, big of a transition. It actually was like um I did the program in person which was a really big benefit I think for me because I started to build this completely new community that I didn't have before going back to school and so it was this. It was a fun transition by definitely different than you know working with ah marketing teams working alongside executives having a mantor. You know it. It was a very experience but kind of a freeing one at that.
03:59.75
mvhuber
Um, for sure and I again I had a very similar experience I mean I was out of school for almost twenty years when I went back but it was like this amazing like just deep dive into doing the work.
04:14.98
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
04:16.72
mvhuber
And you know I think that it informs my work now as a sports psychology professional in that it required this faith right? This growth mindset this process orientation of like I don't know how long this is going to take I don't know where the hell I'm going with this.
04:25.11
Anna Hennings
And I and.
04:34.20
mvhuber
But like I'm just going to focus on what I can control now. So when I come out the other side like I'm in a position to do something that I want to do even though I have no idea what it's going to look like I mean is that does it resonate.
04:35.48
Anna Hennings
Act.
04:43.89
Anna Hennings
Yeah, it's ah 2% resonates and even I think going back to school as an as an adult like I think immediately within the first quarter was. Called the class Mom and I'm like I'm not even that old but it was kind of fun to walk into this situation with that life experience and and to be able to I don't I don't know I don't know if that's something you want to.
05:09.63
mvhuber
Yeah, no yeah.
05:13.85
Anna Hennings
It was definitely a very I definitely resonate with what you're saying it was this huge trust in the process feeling a little bit like an outsider because they're coming in after having been out of school for so long. Having had this career already feeling like didn't I already make this choice I have my degree I had a career. What am I doing but it.
05:24.48
mvhuber
In.
05:32.62
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
05:33.77
Anna Hennings
Absolutely it absolutely was the right decision.
05:35.51
mvhuber
Yeah, and I agree with that and was absolutely the right decision for me too. So it's I never have a regret about it and I guess you know to give people who are listening a little bit of background. So the way it worked for us was we had basically a year of classes. And then after a year of doing our sort of you know, typical vanilla course course requirements. We had to move into fieldwork or internships and we started to do the work under supervision and and you know starting to apply what we've learned and so you know.
06:02.86
Anna Hennings
Um, ah.
06:10.30
mvhuber
Thinking about that that sort of just came to me like what was it like for you to to go through your field work or your internships like how did you feel like what were the things that challenged you when you first started like be on your own.
06:22.67
Anna Hennings
Ah I have to admit I I loved it I Loved it again. It was this deep sense of oh this is what I'm supposed to be doing this is the work that I want to be so I.
06:32.40
mvhuber
Yeah.
06:37.57
Anna Hennings
That continuously reinforced throughout the course of the internship process I think the hardest 1 of the hardest things was being totally new and bad something again again, it was that complete trust in the process that was sometimes very hard and realizing like I don't.
06:48.33
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
06:57.19
Anna Hennings
Know how to do this and I need some help to figure it out. It was really humbling um at you know when I think you you go so long in your career and you build up this confidence. We now know right? How how confidence builds and and.
06:58.68
mvhuber
Yeah, help.
07:06.54
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
07:15.50
Anna Hennings
To go back to Square One was it. It was really humbling and so I think it was really it but it was a great experience to be put in that situation again. Um as an adult because then you it makes you more relatable to the people that you're working with who are.
07:24.68
mvhuber
Um, and.
07:34.82
mvhuber
That's a good point.
07:35.14
Anna Hennings
In the process of developing their skills and everything and and so it's it was a great position to be in to not only learn and practice what we were learning in in class but to practice the skills on ourselves in this situation that was so new and but it. You're learning so much. Ah, the fly and you have to fail so much. It was hard but I think that makes us or at least it made me feel more equipped to help my athletes now through their.
07:56.19
mvhuber
Um, yes.
08:09.97
Anna Hennings
Doubts of failure and trusting the process and all that.
08:10.63
mvhuber
Absolutely yeah and and I think the word that comes to mind for me is gratitude I mean sort of the the appreciation for the fact that after you know all these years of not having been in school and like just sort of going through the motions on that. That's the way I felt in my in my work to have the chance to go through and like really.
08:16.20
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
08:30.90
Anna Hennings
The head.
08:30.50
mvhuber
Struggle you know in that learning process and you know, really appreciate that I'm sort of going from square yo zero from the very very bottom the very bottommer the barrel where I know nothing to actually like going through this transformation from that to hey. I'm now a qualified professional I have a master's degree and then ultimately sitting for our cnpc certified mental performance consultant ah certification like that journey was like oh my god it like it took me 3 to 4 years you know all in and it was like I did it. You know I did it and it was like I got to appreciate it and really immerse myself in it which who you know a lot of people don't get that opportunity in adulthood you know we take it for granted when we're 181920 years old and now we're like hey this is really cool even though I suck at this in the beginning.
09:19.72
Anna Hennings
Well and I think too it's It's a great example to bring to the people to I mean I think you do too I work with a ton of adolescent athletes mostly youth Youth athletes not not exclusively, but the majority of them are young and to be able to be a walking.
09:29.81
mvhuber
Yes.
09:39.71
Anna Hennings
Example of you don't have to have life figured out when you go to college when you graduate from college you might change your mind and that's perfectly. Okay, all these decisions lead up to future experiences and you don't really know which doors are going to open when and. What experience you have. That's going to open some future door and to to be this walking model if you don't have to have it all figured out right when you go to college or when you graduate from college and that that's okay I think as a important and message to send.
10:12.83
mvhuber
Absolutely yeah, it's it's interesting I just literally just got a message in the last like 3 or four days from a client of mine I haven't seen him probably in a few months but we work together through the summer and you know he's high school athlete and the weight the pressure of.
10:19.95
Anna Hennings
Next.
10:32.90
mvhuber
What he was going through athletically was really challenging him and so much so that he decide to step away from his sport and like I was like you know you got to do? What's best for you. You know it's not the end of the world if you take some time for yourself because really at the end of the day. It's about you being happy. And enjoying your life and enjoying your sport and if you're not like what's the point and he came back to me like you know, just recently and said like you know like the ability to step away and really like taking from the conversations that we had like I'm moving back toward it in a better way and I feel good about it and I was like yeah I think there is something to be said for our experience. You know in in like walking away from something that we've we had it literally invested in for tens of years in terms of our education and and like starting from the bottom and building up it a career and getting to a point where you're probably making some decent money and now you're stepping away from that and going back to nothing right? and you're completely humbling yourself, but it's okay.
11:17.29
Anna Hennings
Again. Um, yeah.
11:27.30
mvhuber
Like that's part of the journey and it's okay and if we can impart that lesson to athletes because I think there is this natural, especially with the adolescent the high school age. There's this natural sort of like impendent or clock ticking with them about what's next. What's next am I going to go play in college am I going to go pro and and they feel the weight of that and.
11:42.93
Anna Hennings
The 400%
11:46.52
mvhuber
You know it doesn't necessarily mean like if you don't go to the division 1 college you want to go to when you're 18 and you go to Juco or you transfer or you step away and come back I mean it's not. It's never over right? You can always have a chance to go back and I think that's really important. Yeah.
11:56.74
Anna Hennings
Yes, yes I completely agree.
12:04.93
mvhuber
Now Is there anything and I know you have an athletic background as ah as a volleyball player so is there anything from your athletic background that like inspired or motivated you to get into the field because I know there was for me. Okay.
12:17.19
Anna Hennings
Um, ah, all all of it. Um, yeah so I I played you know, actually way back when when I was really little before I sprouted up to ah a prime 6 but 1 I was a competitive gymnast. It's I always think that's ah, a funny place to start considering how tall I am now I certainly look absolutely nothing like a gymnast but I was a competitive gymnast until about 12 and my body was just said no, it's like this is not for you Anna um, you know I had injuries head to toe.
12:41.79
mvhuber
Okay.
12:53.23
Anna Hennings
Wrist you know, ah braces on every single joint possible. It seemed like and so I remember that when I made the transition from being a competitive gymnast to competitive volleyball. My dad just kindly said to me at the time like hey there is this club volleyball tryout this weekend. Do you want to go check it out.
13:02.81
mvhuber
Um.
13:12.29
Anna Hennings
Um, and so that was how I got started in playing competitively myself. But it my interest in the sport really grew out of watching Carrie Walsh play indoor volleyball to Stanford my dad and I used to go to those games and it was it.
13:27.11
mvhuber
Um, really okay.
13:30.56
Anna Hennings
That's how I fell in love with the sport I watching her play and it was this just bonding experience with my dad and it's like I want to do that and so he kindly nudged me in that direction I left gymnastics and I played.
13:39.42
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
13:46.49
Anna Hennings
Volleyball only like highly competitively for about 4 years um and I think looking back on it now part of what motivated me to go into this field is that I wasn't part of a very supportive team culture of the variety of teams I was on it ultimately. Completely burnt me out of the sport. Um I didn't effectively recover from injury I didn't have coach support I didn't have good teammate dynamics I had no idea what to do mentally to keep myself in it and I just said I'm out. Um, and I think if I had had somebody. Um. Like you were me as part of that support when I was fifteen sixteen and that kind of person had been part of the programs I was in it would have been a completely different story I think I could have maintained the love maintained that that mindset of the. Of just growth and development and joy. Um, but it so quickly became a business and at such a young age and when I didn't when I didn't do exactly what the program wanted me to do it. It. It. It was the right choice at the time for me to leave. Let me just put it that way and so I stopped playing after my freshman year of high school I that was my last year of club club volleyball but I still loved the sport so much.
15:09.76
mvhuber
Um, yeah, um, wow.
15:21.18
Anna Hennings
Like I ended up throughout college I I played for fun I played in rec leagues I became really good friends with ah a lot of the people on the men's volleyball team and the women's club team and I would just go and like hang out and practice with them and play interviewals with them I really found ways to stay.
15:38.80
mvhuber
Sure.
15:38.90
Anna Hennings
To keep this sport interwoven in my life and then as an adult I played in a variety of of women's and Coed volleyball leagues and I really ultimately stopped playing over a decade ago After. Having my rotator cuff surgery. So It's like I had as an adult I had the the the quintessential of volleyball shoulder surgery and kind of realized Okay, that's that's my cue. That's my cue to but.
16:04.60
mvhuber
Well, but but like I get I give you credit because I think what you described is you leaving the travel you know culture The the travel program you were in or programs on your own of your own volition right? It was your choice which I think that is.
16:20.55
Anna Hennings
Yeah, that.
16:23.53
mvhuber
Absolutely the exception not the rule and the sense I get because I don't know much of anything about volleyball Only what I've learned in the last couple of years just observing from the outside looking in is that it is a very very stressful culture and frankly.
16:24.86
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
16:39.65
mvhuber
Based upon what I observe from parents and hear from parents can be a toxic culture but there's a pressure of I need to stay in this because we've invested so much in it particularly the travel the money you know going all over to these tournaments and it's like well we can't We can't cut our losses. We got to keep going.
16:42.29
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
16:49.96
Anna Hennings
Um, yep.
16:57.17
Anna Hennings
You know.
16:58.75
mvhuber
But meanwhile it's at the expense of the wellness and and the mental well-being of this young person who is like you know getting beaten up by the system and so you know the fact that you were able to step away is is pretty impressive but I'm sure. Also if you look back on it. You're like I wish I could have continued to go if I had.
17:16.66
Anna Hennings
Yeah, and I think it it was the mental and emotional resources to do it especially and yeah, it's you know I see the potential for completely different path had the culture been more supportive. Had this.
17:16.79
mvhuber
The resources to do it. Yeah, yeah, that's all and exactly right.
17:34.38
Anna Hennings
Team dynamics been more effective had the mental individual level mental skills been taught and so that became this huge motivator to be the person I needed when I was a teenager and I echo what you said it's I I hear about these.
17:40.59
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
17:46.53
mvhuber
Um, yes, yeah.
17:53.85
Anna Hennings
Cultures and coaches and pressure and so much going into I mean and this isn't unique to volleyball but the the pressure to perform at a certain level in your high school years so that you can get that.
18:09.29
mvhuber
Me.
18:09.96
Anna Hennings
Scholarship money or what have you to go to college and it it is a big pressure cooker and that's so much of it's a part of what what I work on with the with the people that I see.
18:18.83
mvhuber
Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting right? Like I think you know it's certainly a driver of why people like us exist. But sometimes I can't I I can't I can't help but like question at times you know when it's when I'm in my really quiet moments of like. Why do people like you and me have to exist like why are things so crazy that there needs to be mental health mental performance professionals who are in there sort of just like mitigating the stress and the risk in the system. Rather than changing the system and it just you know I think the truth of the matter is is that some of it's just human nature because when I played sport in high school I was above average and I was competitive and I loved what I did but I also put a lot of pressure on myself. But I didn't live in a culture where everybody played travel baseball all year around and I didn't live in. Ah, family where my parents didn't care or know about any of this stuff. They didn't know about college. So for me, it was all on me and I did it to myself and so the truth of the matter is is even without the system we have. We still have individuals who really put pressure on themselves to be the best they can be because they're investing in it. So.
19:18.55
Anna Hennings
Can I.
19:33.82
mvhuber
Like you I almost feel like you're never going to change the system. So we're here to sort of be the check right? put the perspective into the system. So that people can continue to do what they love and not burn out and not walk away and maybe even worse right? So like talk to me about like some of the things that you do. In your work and and some of the issues that you deal with and how how how you've learned to sort of get better at working with the athletes that you work with.
19:58.22
Anna Hennings
Yeah, that's a who that's a doozy of a question So I'll start by saying that you know a bulk of the work that I do is with indoor volleyball athletes and Beach volleyball athletes. However, they're very different sports and they have a pretty different sport culture.
20:10.98
mvhuber
Um.
20:17.14
Anna Hennings
And I know we had talked about that part of our theme for today was navigating transitions and the transition from an indoor volleyball player to a beach volleyball player which is what a lot of a lot of beach players do come from the indoor game that is a very I don't want to say intense transition. But.
20:18.68
mvhuber
Um.
20:36.60
Anna Hennings
Sport cultures are very different. So when I'm working with a beach volleyball Athlete who has recently made the transition from the indoor team. It's a really the work becomes it. It becomes more individual focused as a and what I mean by that is.
20:41.19
mvhuber
And.
20:55.16
Anna Hennings
Beach Volleyball game is so there's a lot of focus on individual development and how who am I going to pair with and at least at the use level versus the indoor teams indoor volleyballs much more of a team and like collective focus and ah focus on external I See a lot of. My athletes wanting external validation. They want that they want to feel it They feel like they have to prove themselves to coaches. They feel like they have to prove themselves to team to their teamage. They don't want to let their teammates Down. There's a lot of how do I look to the people around me and not to say that not to say that that. Doesn't exist in the beach game but it's a different perspective and it's a lot of how do I get people to play with me at the youth level. How do I get my how do I develop the skills and get seen by the right people because the club scene is different. You're You're not on a team that you travel with all the time. So It's um, it really depends on where the athlete is in their mom in the in their sporting career and what what their goals are but a lot of it is navigating that sense of.
22:02.23
mvhuber
Sure.
22:11.31
Anna Hennings
That sense of external validation and shifting their perspective to to be more internal and to to be able to validate themselves to be able to see for themselves. How am I building and growing and developing confidence regardless of what people say regardless of what. College coaches think do I feel good about me.
22:31.35
mvhuber
So Is it now Now this is me trying to understand is it a matter of people leaving the indoor game completely and moving and shifting to focus on the beach game or are they sort of rotating between the 2 In season. Okay.
22:51.11
Anna Hennings
It Um, it's both. It's both I have I have a couple clients who have gone completely. They started indoor. They didn't like that the culture of the programs. They were a part of and which the beach game and have thrived.
23:05.30
mvhuber
Um.
23:07.81
Anna Hennings
Um, and I have I have some clients who do both they they have the indoor they have their indoor programs. They have high school. They have their indoor club and then beach the beach season you know comes at the end. Um, you know it's more spring Sport. So. They kind of go all the year round with all different with with both and so it's it also really depends on it certainly depends on the athlete and a lot of times you'll see beach being used as cross training for indoor athletes and just a way to stay engaged and Work. Um.
23:25.71
mvhuber
And.
23:37.90
mvhuber
Wrote. Yeah, yeah I mean I mean I don't have you don't I don't think you have to be an expert to understand that the differences between the the games are very different just in terms of like the surface you're playing on the muscles that you're using the the space and it like.
23:42.90
Anna Hennings
Work you around.
23:54.64
Anna Hennings
Oh my God yeah.
23:59.44
mvhuber
And the the cooperation right? You have more people on an indoor game. You only have two in beach right? You're you're jumping all this stuff and so I would imagine it could be a really great advantage to do both? Um, but I also could see how people would specialize in one because they feel like hey I need to.
24:09.66
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
24:17.66
mvhuber
Only focus on one to get better if I do this, It's going to be a waste of my time some of that I would imagine and just based in on what you know what? I know is that you know like I think people have those fears about am I You know what's going to allow me to to to be the best right? And that's a relative term.
24:32.10
Anna Hennings
A yeah.
24:36.31
mvhuber
And do I want to lose a momentum or do I want to get away from playing indoor because I'm going to you know lose Momentum or a coach is not going to be happy or whatever right? like I I would imagine like you're helping with some of your athletes with those decisions About. What's best for them and and validating it or helping them think through that process them. Okay.
24:53.93
Anna Hennings
A hundred percent I always tell my parents this at my athletes parents this when we meet but also the the athletes themselves talking about the future I love those discussions because it's just an authentic conversation. Get them to reflect on what's important to them because there's all I feel like athletes these days, especially the kiddos you get input from so many different sources right? You've got a lot of them have. They've got strength and conditioning coaches. They have multiple coaches on their team. They've got their parents.
25:23.42
mvhuber
Um.
25:31.37
Anna Hennings
They've got their teammates like what their peers are doing as I always like to open up to give them time during our session to just let it all sink in and be like what do? What do you want like you know So let's say you're in.
25:42.54
mvhuber
Is.
25:49.39
Anna Hennings
You're talking to these different d one coaches and like do you want to spend 4 years in that particular location like let's put aside the you know the the the characteristics of the part. It's like for it's like think about.
25:57.10
mvhuber
Right.
26:05.47
Anna Hennings
The decision from all these different angles and to just give them the time to reflect on what do I want because I think sometimes they don't always have that space and I think it's such a just to create that space.
26:18.53
mvhuber
Um, yes, yeah I mean I think you just nailed something that is is probably 1 of the most important things that I talk about with athletes is you know to say it another way and and and I will frame it for this way for the athlete is like why are you doing this.
26:20.68
Anna Hennings
That we do just like just think about look what's important to you.
26:38.57
mvhuber
Why are you in this place putting in all this time and all this energy only to feel conflicted only to feel you know you know down on yourself only to feel like you know you're giving something up right? and it's like it's okay, to not want it. But it's also okay to want it but like start to like unravel why you want it so that you can keep going and do it with a smile on your face. It comes up so often like what is why are you spending thirty forty fifty hours a week spending your parents are spending thousands and thousands of dollars to do this.
27:16.23
Anna Hennings
And.
27:17.89
mvhuber
If you don't love it or to your you know to your example, why am I going to this college well because they're giving me the the biggest scholarship. Okay, obviously that's a factor for a lot of families. But now you have to live in this place for 4 years now you have to play for this coach now you have to be with these teammates now you have to like deal with this academic environment.
27:25.93
Anna Hennings
Absolutely.
27:36.11
mvhuber
If that doesn't work for you. You're not going to be happy because you're human, all those factors influence you it's not just hey I got a scholarship and I think a lot of people just don't think about it that way. They don't think about the fit of the program. They don't think about their well-being they think only about the sport and that to me is you know that's.
27:48.20
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
27:54.11
mvhuber
That can be that can lead to a crisis you know, ultimately because you're making choices for the wrong reasons.
27:55.82
Anna Hennings
Right? And I like to think that we're we help in sort of the prevention of those to an extent like let's talk about it now. So it doesn't become as big of a problem later on like let's let's think through all of this and.
28:02.30
mvhuber
Yes, absolutely.
28:13.83
Anna Hennings
Honestly, that's some of the most fulfilling work because you start to just help them make choices for themselves and it's not just let me teach you How to build confidence. Let me teach you how to focus or to breathe. That's how are you integrating this so you can be a you know? ah a young adult human in a few years like.
28:31.51
mvhuber
Yeah, absolutely yeah and and and just sort of having looked over ah your website which I really think is great. Um, you know you talk about being sort of a holistic practitioner right? like really looking at everything about the person and I would describe myself in a very similar way.
28:33.73
Anna Hennings
Love that Mark.
28:48.87
mvhuber
Like the person's got to come first for me because it's so much more um to them than just athlete and I think what happens is when people come to see me. It's it's it's inverted that there the the athlete portion of their identity is so large relative to everything else that they look at.. Every decision is made through that lens every feeling or every thought they have is made through the lens of hey like this is the most important part of me and if I'm not good at this or this isn't working like that means I'm a bad person and that is a really heavy burden to bear and to be able to create the space.
29:22.61
Anna Hennings
Ah, right.
29:25.00
mvhuber
Talk about that and just acknowledge that that's there and then build the awareness to start to make those changes so that life can be a little bit easier I mean I could see you sort of reacting to that.
29:34.11
Anna Hennings
Yeah, it's I think some of the most effective work I I do or that I feel like I've done in the past is when you start to incorporate that you help an athlete do the work outside of their sport. It's like.
29:41.13
mvhuber
In.
29:53.30
Anna Hennings
Practice this just in life. Not just when you go to a race or when you go to a meet or you go to a tournament like practice this when you wake up in the morning how you talk to yourself for instance matters Regardless of what you're doing whether you're an athlete or not whether you're.
30:00.30
mvhuber
Then.
30:08.27
mvhuber
Um, right.
30:12.79
Anna Hennings
But right it's so it's the it's but we can't do that as effectively if we're not trying to learn who we're working with from all these different angles and I think that's the most important work is when you start to get them or help them realize that they can help themselves.
30:22.80
mvhuber
Yeah.
30:31.82
Anna Hennings
All these areas of their lay.
30:32.00
mvhuber
Yeah, so and I think that speaks to the idea that every client that we have is unique right? and I think that's one of the tenets that we've you know I think we can agree is something that practitioners looking at every person individually and you have to understand them and assess them that way.
30:41.61
Anna Hennings
Um, totally.
30:50.80
mvhuber
But and I'm gonna ask this question specific to volleyball athletes are there are there like things that often that you see come up typically or come up repeatedly in terms of the issues that the volleyball athletes that you're working with face.
30:53.60
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
31:06.66
Anna Hennings
Yes, and I will say this with the caveat that I don't think this is necessarily specific to volleyball. But I see a very common a few very common threads through the athletes I work with most of are volleyball players and 1
31:12.30
mvhuber
Um, okay.
31:26.40
Anna Hennings
Is how to respond to to mistakes and how to Unravel that sense of perfectionism if I make a mistake then that means I'm a bad player or that means I'm not going to get playing time. That means my teammates are madly and how to Unravel that sense of just no, That's not True. You know so to to. Counterbalance the criticism that is so intertwined with their mental stories is a huge thing frequent that I work on frequently with with my with my athletes I don't think that that's unique to volleyball. But.
31:49.42
mvhuber
And.
31:58.25
mvhuber
Um, know it's not okay.
32:01.88
Anna Hennings
I see it almost ah eyeball players beach and indoor. Um and the other thing is this over fixation on winning and again I do not think this is in any way a fish ah specific to volleyball though. I do see it a lot is this sense. Of being afraid to lose and how that affects how they play when they are down a few points or if they walk into a game thinking. This team's really Good. We can't beat Them. So.
32:27.17
mvhuber
Um.
32:35.42
mvhuber
Oh My goodness is it's my least favorite. It's the it is the most confounding thing to me and I see this as a parent I see it as a a mental performance Coach I I've seen it as a volunteer coach that idea like oh these guys are. These girls are really Good. We're going to lose because we're not as good as them and it's like we didn't even play the game yet one 2 you can only control what you do So who cares who's on the other side just go play and it seems so intuitive but it's something that comes up. So. Much.
33:12.23
Anna Hennings
Yes, and I actually had I had a I had a ah person tell me once and you're not competitive enough. You're telling me not to think about winning and I'm like okay I obviously need to shift how I talk about this because. Ah, didn't sell it right to that one person but but ultimately it's the sense of whether the game is zero zero or 23 24 and it's the match winning point. You need to be focused the same.
33:38.86
mvhuber
Just on right.
33:44.19
Anna Hennings
It's like you're still in the 1 moment you need to do your best for that moment. Don't look at the score and I just remember it a told me and I have to look at the score and I'm like okay this is a bigger conversation separate.
33:47.31
mvhuber
Look Bright or calm. But but no, but I love I Love that you're you're you're talking about that because I think it's something that I've gone through as well and the distinction that I've broke through on for me is I was always of the bias Of. Winning and losing don't matter and I started to and I realized this more as a parent than anything winning does matter to kids. The question now is not whether or not winning matters. It's why does it matter so much and that to me leads to the.
34:19.82
Anna Hennings
Her.
34:29.58
mvhuber
Is it Matt does it matter so much because that individual person that kid really believes that it it matters so much to them in their life or is it because they're trying to make somebody else happy or somebody else has told them that it's so important that you win that they've co-opted that. You know it's like they've they've they've adopted that thought and that feeling from somebody else. They feel like I can't let them down versus like if I were to just lose I would probably walk away and just go on living my life but because this adult over here is telling me I need to win and if I'm not happy if I'm happy when I I lose then there's something wrong with me then all of a sudden. It's.
35:07.63
Anna Hennings
A hundred that is such a good point Mike just that sense of what is entwined with that sense of winning why? yes like I I did yes but.
35:07.92
mvhuber
It's different right.
35:21.34
mvhuber
Yeah, yeah, and and I think so the other thing I think I've realized as well is and and this is really more experiential from the last couple of years working with athletes and across a variety of sports whether it's baseball soccer basketball individual sports. Whatever like a lot of these. Clubs Now. They're private their for profit and the way they market their club is wins and losses therefore if the club is not winning then it potentially they're losing money.
35:55.31
Anna Hennings
Yeah, he.
35:56.83
mvhuber
So it becomes like we have to win because we need to win this tournament so that we can go stick it up on our website. So more people will come to the club and and the people who run those clubs or coach those teams may not even realize that that's what they're doing but they're creating this culture of if it's a winner winner else and the kids are wearing it and a lot of kids are either quitting.
36:03.10
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
36:16.99
mvhuber
They're leaving these programs. They're rotating around because you're not teaching them the right lessons and and and unfortunately we are then thrust into the equation of how do I teach or rewire frankly or reprogram the thinking so that they can go into this with perspective to say hey.
36:19.71
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
36:33.50
mvhuber
It's okay, if you lose as long as you've done everything you can to win right? because there's only so much you can control. That's not an easy thing to do as a professional. Ah.
36:39.33
Anna Hennings
Um, writing well and especially not when you're working with athletes who are so who are in a system that is saying it's not okay to lose to to because they're starting to get these conflicting messages and.
36:50.46
mvhuber
Right. Yes.
36:58.75
Anna Hennings
Thiscent but the way I the what I've seen a lot of is is how clubs advertise their college commits again I'm working with a lot of you athletes and so when I had several athletes this past fall who wanted to switch ah which club they played for but they've been playing for this 1 club.
37:08.54
mvhuber
And.
37:18.48
Anna Hennings
For many years and so now they're thinking about switching and they have to look at well am I gonna get on the right team to get seen by the right college coaches to be recruited to the right and they're not even in high school yet and they're looking at well where if I go to this club.
37:24.38
mvhuber
Yes.
37:34.20
mvhuber
Um, yeah.
37:37.98
Anna Hennings
What colleges can I go to and I I guess that there inherently isn't anything wrong with that I just I guess it just puts the pressure on so outcome thinking.
37:53.50
mvhuber
Yes.
37:55.63
Anna Hennings
So much outcome thinking and not just hey are you going to enjoy your experience of getting better as an athlete playing for this person or playing for this club.
38:02.16
mvhuber
Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of comparison and that's definitely something I see in social media because I like we were talking about this before we started recording I work for instance I work a predominant number of my clients are New Jersey based baseball players. Okay, in that world if you're in social media paying attention which I do now because I'm just curious about what goes on and I want to see you know sort of what's happening. There's so much comparison Joe Smith is going to play here and Joe Smith plays on the same club as Johnny Johnson
38:29.38
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
38:41.55
mvhuber
And Johnny Johnson doesn't have an offer yet to go play at division one level. So Johnny Johnson now feels crappy about himself because his teammate is now going to play division one and he doesn't have an offer and does that mean he stinks or does that mean that you know he's not going to get it or does that mean like he's just not good enough like.
38:46.00
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
38:53.13
Anna Hennings
In her. Yeah, totally totally.
38:58.93
mvhuber
There's this whole world of like in your face public comparisons and I have to imagine It's very similar in volleyball and even other sports. Yeah yeah, so I want to ask you because you have talked about parents and let's call it adults.
39:10.19
Anna Hennings
Hot. Yeah, it's yeah.
39:18.28
mvhuber
Like what do you see from the adults who are in that community that you operate in that is good and maybe it's not so good and like you know how do you manage that as as a professional.
39:29.30
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah, on one hand I see so many adults who want to do the right thing. Um I would not. Be in this profession if there were not parents who wanted to give their kiddos all the resources possible for their own personal development I think that is amazing. It's I feel privileged every single athlete I work with I see as an honor. And a privilege that I am on their athletic journey. They picked me and that I think that is a huge step of especially if you have parents who. I Think a lot of them have told me like my kid won't talk to me about this stuff. But I know they need to talk about this stuff with somebody and that somebody needs to not be attached to the sport organization and they don't need. They can't be a family member so we want So will you work with them right? And so I see that as a huge benefit and ah. Great thing not just because I'm I'm it It feeds my business that aside because these kiddos are getting resources early on in their lives that they get to them work on and have for the rest of their lives and.
40:38.50
mvhuber
Um.
40:50.67
mvhuber
As.
40:53.21
Anna Hennings
That is that is beautiful I don't remember seeing that like when I was a kid and sure like it certainly wasn't around as much or as the conversation was not open and nearly the way it is now and I love seeing that.
41:03.75
mvhuber
Yeah I Love that because it's your experience is exactly similar to mine which is to say that conversation of my kid needs to talk to somebody who's not connected to this somebody who's objective somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight. And to the parent's credit. They understand like I just want my kid to be happy I Just want my kid to be able to like not carry this burden around all the time because I can't help them the way they need to be helped or.
41:29.98
Anna Hennings
Um, right right.
41:40.25
mvhuber
Like no matter what I do or no matter what I try as a parent. It's still not good enough because of the dynamic because my primary role is to be a caregiver to be somebody who's there to make sure that I'm stay alive and I thrive sports further down the chain it just it it muddies the picture and I see that myself as a parent.
41:48.64
Anna Hennings
Great.
42:00.19
mvhuber
So A lot of times people ask me that question and and I'm curious to to hear your opinion like when people talk to me like well I'm sure you I mean not to be stereotypical but they'll say like I'm sure you get some crazy parents and and the answer the answer I give is usually no because the ones who come to me know are are aware enough to know. That a their kid needs somebody and B they can't do it The crazy parent right? to say that and I've actually heard that someone's used that phrase recently on my podcast I don't love it because parents love and care about their kids I think they just get overinvested in sport but the parent who's over and overinvested doesn't see. Like they get Blur they get um, blinded by that They don't think that their kid needs to talk to somebody because everything's okay or if they were to talk to somebody that might look like there's something wrong with the kids. So we're not going to do that I mean is that similar to what you see.
42:52.87
Anna Hennings
I I agree with you I think almost all of the parents in my the parents in my practice right? The parents of the Epi kiddos that I have in my practice are incredibly supportive and.
43:01.40
mvhuber
Yes, yes.
43:11.99
Anna Hennings
Ah, not, they're supportive parents. They want the best for their kids and then they they want what's best for their kids. Not so that their kids can go get into a school. But so that their kids can feel good about what they're doing whether that means they stay in the sport or leave.
43:13.20
mvhuber
Are.
43:30.91
Anna Hennings
Um, and so I I wouldn't say I have any quote unquote crazy parents and I don't like that term either and I'm I'm trying to think of a different way of putting it like the helicopter parent I guess is another way I've heard it um and perhaps that's just speaks to the newness of my own consulting practice.
43:36.99
mvhuber
Um, no I don't like it right now.
43:49.23
mvhuber
Um, right.
43:50.91
Anna Hennings
I Don't know I feel like maybe there there will be a time when when there there is a very over involved parent that is part of ah you know in the family ah of of an athlete I'm seeing but right now it's It's not my experience and I don't know if that's normal or very Atypical. Um. But currently, it's not my experience.
44:12.90
mvhuber
Okay, so so I have 2 more questions as we're sort of running out of time here. So on that on that. Um, on that note, how do you involve parents in the process.
44:14.88
Anna Hennings
Staff.
44:23.41
Anna Hennings
You know this is an ongoing process is a way to put it because it is a very delicate line to I don't have a great process for it yet. Let me just put it out that way.
44:40.62
mvhuber
Me neith there. So not I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Neither do I I was curious.
44:42.86
Anna Hennings
Basically yeah, yeah, it's honestly I I stayed general is is the the best way to put it I suppose is you know I see the athlete. Their kiddo is my client and I operate with full confidentiality. Um.
44:56.60
mvhuber
Yeah.
45:02.24
Anna Hennings
And however, if I need to you know I will get a a parent who will email me or text me and be like hey this happens like can you talk to so and so about it and it's in those moments where I'm like well I have to think through how do I bring this up with the kid like I. I Don't want them to think I'm talking with the parent behind their back. But I Also really value. What a parent's observations and what they bring to the table and so I've actually been thinking about switching to a more public.
45:22.86
mvhuber
Right.
45:35.73
Anna Hennings
Partial confidentiality with the permission of of of clients so that there's a bit more of a 2 way street not in a hey. So so told me this today. Let me go tell your parents about it but to create ah a bit more of an open pipe. Line of communication to the parent that just says hey we're working on these general topics and so sometimes I do that by email anyways and I tell that to the kid like if I need to touch your parents I keep it general I'm not telling them specifically things that you tell me it's it's challenging.
45:53.83
mvhuber
Yes.
46:03.30
mvhuber
Right? That's exactly that's exactly what I do Yeah, it's exactly what I do now because I do feel an obligation at times and it's not systematized right now but I definitely feel an obligation to communicate with parents about what we're working on.
46:09.70
Anna Hennings
Okay, yeah.
46:20.13
Anna Hennings
Same.
46:21.80
mvhuber
And how things are going and but the thing that I've been thinking about and I'm I'm thinking about moving towards is incorporating some sort of family session into the equation where it wouldn't be as frequent as 1 to 1 but it might be 1 to 4 right? Every fourth session. There's a family session. We talk about.
46:30.75
Anna Hennings
Um, and yeah, but.
46:38.77
Anna Hennings
Ah, her.
46:41.37
mvhuber
Openly what's going on what we're working on because I've had a couple of situations where parents have told me things on the side that I did not know and I was not able to serve the young person as well as I could if I would have known it. And it is a very very fine line. But I've been reading articles recently about triangulation right? How do I work in the parents' perspective the coach's perspective. The the third party who sees something that is completely misaligned with what the young person's telling me and I don't know who to believe but at least if you know there's a disconnect.
47:12.36
Anna Hennings
Yes.
47:17.76
mvhuber
You could start to ask those questions in a noninvasive way now see like is the adult just misperceiving things or is the young person like diluting themselves into thinking. Everything's okay and they're really having this problem that they don't want to share either consciously or subconsciously that's been like 1 of the most complicated.
47:18.71
Anna Hennings
Um, yeah.
47:28.20
Anna Hennings
Yeah. Like yes.
47:37.35
mvhuber
Parts of figuring out how to how to work with young people because they don't necessarily have full agency in the process just from the perspective of mom and dad are paying in a lot of cases mom and dad are asking them to come see me or you because they think they need it versus the kids say I really need this.
47:38.90
Anna Hennings
Yes, and.
47:52.69
Anna Hennings
Yeah.
47:54.13
mvhuber
So now all of a sudden they're being sort of co-opted into this situation and they're sort of like yeah, you're my client young person but your mom and dad pay the bills. It is such a complicated and tricky relationship and trying to find the best way to navigate that is really hard.
47:59.61
Anna Hennings
To write.
48:09.50
Anna Hennings
It is and and Mike I could talk to you more I know we're close on time and am happy to talk to you more about this offline because I've I've I've had conversations with other cnpcs on this exact topic asking the exact questions and I'd be happy to share more about what I'm learning and and offer some resources. So.
48:11.55
mvhuber
Is really hard.
48:16.12
mvhuber
Yeah, we should.
48:24.54
mvhuber
I Would love that.
48:29.45
Anna Hennings
Definitely let's keep that that one of communication open because I I am a hundred percent in that exact same boat that you are experiencing.
48:38.19
mvhuber
Good to know and and I I definitely that's also been a struggle here. Um for me actually while we're recording here I'm gonna I don't I don't ever do this but I'm gonna text my next appointment. Let them know I'm running 5 minutes late so we can. Um, finish up. But so so on that yeah I think that's one of the things I struggle with as a practitioner too is ah isolation right? Not collaborating with my fellow practitioners and like getting so like isolated that I'm not really learning and I'm not growing and I'm not you know.
48:59.83
Anna Hennings
Oh my God and.
49:11.93
mvhuber
Getting that sort of pure consultation because of just the way the world works and I think that there's so much value in that and so to have this conversation. Oh by the way on a recorded line is really is really cool and very valuable. Um, so so with that being said, the last question I'll ask and I ask everybody the same question.
49:24.40
Anna Hennings
Ah, yeah.
49:31.28
mvhuber
And I'll give you a little bit of wiggle room that the way the question is if there's 1 thing one piece of advice that you would leave for somebody who's listening. It can be a parent. It could be an athlete. What would that piece of advice. Be I know.
49:44.91
Anna Hennings
Who This okay I will lead with this comes from a concept at the heart of of my holistic practice and and it really gets to being self compassionate. And it is not a term that a lot of athletes like because it sounds too soft. Um, but there's actually a ton of research that showcases the exact opposite and that advice is to treat yourself like you would treat your best friend on and off the court.
50:08.21
mvhuber
Um.
50:22.75
Anna Hennings
And I think that's geared a bit more toward an athlete perhaps than a parent but treat yourself like you would treat your best friend that goes to especially at how you would talk to yourself and how you would comfort and support yourself.
50:26.68
mvhuber
Um, sharp.
50:40.42
mvhuber
Yeah I Love that and the way I frame the question to my clients is would you talk to a teammate the way that you talk to yourself and invariably answer is no and I think to go further I think that applies to parents as a parent and knowing a lot of parents. Who are in this space of youth sports. They beat the crap out of themselves because they think they're not doing enough for their kid and the truth of the matter is is that you're doing more than enough and sometimes it's up to your kid or it's up to your coach or it's up to some other force.
50:59.91
Anna Hennings
Who.
51:17.98
mvhuber
To help things move the way they're going to move and you don't always have to think there's more you can do because you're doing a lot and I think it's a message that should resonate with parents as well and I would say the same thing to them. So it's a great piece of advice. A great way to end I know it's a hard question but it was wonderful.
51:24.30
Anna Hennings
Down. Yeah.
51:36.67
mvhuber
To speak to you So good to see you I'm glad that you're I'm glad you're doing Well I'm glad that you're out there fighting to fight like I am and um I think it's a great conversation for for us to have and and hopefully we could do it again sometime soon.
51:39.59
Anna Hennings
Likewise Mike.
51:49.45
Anna Hennings
Yes, thank you so much for having me I feel honored and it was great to see you and and chat and and to feel validated for some of the things that as another solo practitioner. It's like oh yeah, we are so.
52:00.79
mvhuber
Um, yes.
52:05.25
Anna Hennings
To be continued more to more conversations like this please it was. It was very filling and and I appreciate you very much take care.
52:12.93
mvhuber
Um, thank you same I'll talk to you soon Bye bye.