In this episode of The Freshman Foundation® Podcast, Michael Huber sits down with David Durand, a mental performance coach, to dive deep into the unique challenges faced by Generation Z athletes. David shares his experiences as both an athlete and coach, discussing the impact of social media, perfectionism, and mental health on today's youth. They explore practical strategies for fostering resilience, identity, and emotional regulation among young athletes.
[00:00 - 03:30] Introduction
Michael introduces David Durand, who shares his background and perspective on working with Gen Z athletes.
[03:31 - 06:50] Social Media’s Impact on Adolescents
David discusses how social media fuels perfectionism and insecurity among young athletes. He explains how constant social surveillance amplifies the pressure to appear flawless.
[06:51 - 10:09] Navigating Perfectionism and Social Comparison
David highlights how perfectionism can be a double-edged sword. He dives into the concepts of social comparison and fear of negative evaluation, which are heightened by social media use.
[10:10 - 14:10] Building Internal Security Through Sports
The conversation shifts to how sports can be a powerful tool for developing internal confidence. Michael and David discuss the shift from seeking external validation to cultivating self-worth.
[14:11 - 19:30] Early Intervention and Planting Seeds of Resilience
Michael shares his experiences working with younger athletes and emphasizes the importance of introducing sports psychology concepts early. David explains how building mental strength at a young age can counterbalance social media’s negative influence.
[19:31 - 22:40] The BET Method: Breath, Eyes, Touch
David introduces his framework from his book, Bet On It, which uses the BET method to help athletes regulate stress and improve performance.
[22:41 - 29:02] Practical Applications of the BET Method
David provides practical examples of how athletes can use the BET method to stay grounded during competition. They discuss how these techniques can also be applied to academics and everyday stressors.
[29:03 - 36:00] Mental Resilience for Injured Athletes
David shares insights from his upcoming book, Better Than Before, which guides athletes through the mental challenges of recovering from injuries. He emphasizes turning adversity into an opportunity for personal growth.
[36:01 - 41:20] Empowering Coaches to Understand and Support Athletes
Michael and David discuss the importance of fostering empathy and understanding in coaching. They explore how asking better questions and creating a supportive environment can positively impact athletes’ mental well-being.
[41:21 - 44:40] Advice for Parents and Coaches on Connecting with Gen Z
David emphasizes the need to approach young athletes with curiosity and empathy, asking questions to better understand their perspective. Michael shares the importance of giving young people a voice and respecting their need to understand the "why" behind decisions.
[44:41 - End] Closing Thoughts and Takeaways
David and Michael wrap up the conversation with their final thoughts on how to best support young athletes in navigating today’s pressures. They discuss the long-term benefits of building resilience, confidence, and self-awareness.
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00:01.12
Michael Huber
Hey David, how are you?
00:02.75
David Durand
Doing well, yeah, thanks for having me.
00:04.67
Michael Huber
It's my pleasure to have you. Thanks for coming onto the podcast. So you know to jump right in, I wanted to ask you you know the first question is, you know what do you find to be the unique challenges of working with Generation Z?
00:17.78
David Durand
Yeah, absolutely. I think, um you know, I can kind of go into some specific things and what the research says, but I think what's unique about my aperspective too is I have my own personal experience because I'm right on the cusp. So when I'm talking, I'm sharing it from my own journey as an athlete and now being on, you know, the coaching side, um but then also working with Gen Z athletes. So for me, the unique challenges in my own life and then those i've I've been working with is, you know, putting excessive pressure and stress on yourself as you're going through, I think there's so many unrealistic expectations nowadays that are completely exacerbated or even created by you know social media or just media in general. This pressure to always look perfect, to be perfect, to perform perfect because you you can't make a mistake, you can't embarrass yourself because you're being, you know there's surveillance all the time, you're being watched all the time, you're being filmed all the time. um And then people
01:13.32
David Durand
and People's attention spans right are getting more and more limited and it's like everybody's kind of playing this game fighting for attention and validation and acceptance and you really have to prove yourself and do everything just right to get you know your 10 seconds of fame your 10 seconds of of people's attention and validation. And so I experienced that in my own life. And you know, that was a unique challenge was I feel like as a child, I ah fell in love with sports, love sports. um And then as I started getting into adolescence, you know, your brain starts to change, you you start to become more aware, and then you kind of start to become bright, more self conscious. But I, I know that being intensely insecure is just human nature.
01:53.99
David Durand
especially during adolescence. Adolescents are intensely insecure, especially around that 11, 12, 13, 14 years old. And you know we tend to get more secure as we go, hopefully. But in my experience, and I'm working with people now, social media really held me hostage in that like intense insecurity.
02:08.78
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
02:10.97
David Durand
I got an iPhone you know early on in high school. I had social media from middle school on, but Instagram and Snapchat and all these apps and all these platforms an image and I started to care less about just the love of the game, the passion for the game, learning and growing the things that are really just like, you know, hooked me when I was a kid, it started to become less about that, and more about just the appearances of things.
02:31.53
Michael Huber
Mm-hmm.
02:35.47
Michael Huber
Mm
02:37.31
David Durand
And so, you know, to sum that all up, I think the biggest the biggest unique challenge, which has partly always been there, but now it's worse than ever for adolescents for is the fact that there are more
02:38.59
Michael Huber
-hmm.
02:51.42
David Durand
there um they're more concerned with their image because there's more pressure and stress to look perfect than there has been in the past.
03:00.49
Michael Huber
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, just to, and just to be, to be totally clear here, you know, generation Z, I think, you know, we know a lot of people know what that means and have heard that before, but just ah to be clear, you know, my understanding of it is, is right now it would be any athlete anywhere or any person, young person from 12 or so to 27 would sort of be the age range of, of people that fall into that generation Z category. Is that correct?
03:26.94
David Durand
That's right. Yeah.
03:28.30
Michael Huber
Yeah, so so I think you know you said a lot of really important things, and I think it's great that you're talking about it and kind of sharing that perspective from your own point of view because I'm very far removed from being at your stage of life, but I also have children who are Gen Z children, right?
03:28.00
David Durand
Yeah.
03:46.92
Michael Huber
So you know I see things a little bit um a little bit differently, but one of the things I do notice in my work um Certainly, and as a parent to a certain extent is, you know, there is this element of perfectionism, I think, in every person in that sort of teenage age, certainly that I come across where perfectionism, I think some people think of it as binary, you know, zero, one, like I am or I'm not.
04:09.41
Michael Huber
but i don't really think of it that way at all and i think the research backs that up is sort of it's more of a continuum right like everybody has a little bit of an element of perfectionism but the more i do this work i think i see more kids have those sort of traits of like i feel like i can't make a mistake and that impacts their ability to perform and to show up in the world right so like what's your kind of you know what's your perspective or what's your experience with sort of perfectionism as a as a coach and individually
04:22.26
David Durand
Right.
04:28.07
David Durand
Right.
04:36.67
David Durand
Absolutely. The two things that pop in my head just from understanding kind of the literature surrounding perfectionism, because my background and training is more in the clinical sites, always kind of have that lens. It's um in the sports world as well. Two things that come up for me are social comparison and fear of negative evaluation. And so those are two things right that are completely heightened during adolescence, again, which is a feature of adolescence. It's totally normal.
04:59.80
David Durand
um And there's, you know, reasons behind that that they wouldn't get to later. But as far as social comparison, they're always looking around to see where they are in the pecking order. Where, where, where am I? Right? Because we're designed that you don't want to fall to the bottom because then you're going to be left behind, you're going to be left out. So you you want to at least be in the middle, if not be on the top. And that, you know, ah that equates to quote unquote, safety, you know, I'm safe i'm okay and So we're always looking around, comparing ourselves to other people. And so yeah, perfectionism, again, to kind of bring back social media, when everything you're looking at, hundreds and thousands of images and videos per day, and it's unrealistic, you know, they appear perfect. It's not reality. um You know, there's edits and filters and highlight reels and all these things. There's no blemishes. There's no imperfections. There's no people, you know, just tripping. There's no people missing that last second shot. It's just everything is a highlight. and so
05:50.43
David Durand
you're living your internal reality which is completely insecure unstable not feeling good about yourself and you're comparing that against people's external appearances you know which is everything is edited and filtered and so that social comparison game though that's natural when you throw social media and kind of these unreleased expectations into the into the picture, then, you know, that that is a recipe for, you know, leading kind of more into depressive symptoms or anxiety and kind of that vicious cycle.
06:08.37
Michael Huber
sure yeah
06:18.32
David Durand
And then the other one is fear of negative evaluation. I think that's also a big piece of perfectionism. For me, I wanted, you know, I kind of referenced when I was a kid and fell in love with sports and particularly basketball, I wanted it to be great.
06:28.84
David Durand
I fell in love with the process and I just, right, you just naturally, everybody has a desire to be somebody, to really be something great in life. But as I started going and then getting into adolescence, that desire to be somebody was overshadowed by the fear of being nobody.
06:44.06
David Durand
And I felt like I started to live and play more from a place of insecurity and fear rather than desire.
06:44.97
Michael Huber
Yeah.
06:51.32
David Durand
And so I see that fear of negative valuation really pinning people into perfectionism because yeah, there's some elements of perfectionism like that's great. That can be part of your personality.
06:59.68
Michael Huber
Yeah.
06:59.29
David Durand
It can really help you achieve great things that pushes you forward.
07:01.31
Michael Huber
A hundred percent.
07:02.41
David Durand
But when it's that desire to, you know, just really be somebody and you kind of have those doses of perfectionism, like that can be fantastic.
07:05.26
Michael Huber
Right.
07:08.93
David Durand
But when it comes from that fear of and that insecurity of I'm so afraid of being nobody, and so I have to be perfect to be somebody.
07:11.25
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
07:16.60
Michael Huber
Sure.
07:16.39
David Durand
It's like, well, that's not true. That's when, you know, that's what's pushing you forward, and that's going to be exhausting and lead to a lot of stress.
07:22.67
Michael Huber
Yeah.
07:22.47
David Durand
So those are kind of the two things that I think of.
07:25.50
Michael Huber
Yeah, right. yeah mean What you're describing is right is a road to burnout because we're seeking validation from sources externally that we can't control. right And no matter how hard we try, if we don't get that external validation, it's like, well, why am I doing this versus like, why am I doing this?
07:35.37
David Durand
yeah
07:41.06
Michael Huber
Well, because I love it. Because I want to get better. right Because this is important to me.
07:43.07
David Durand
Yeah.
07:45.11
Michael Huber
right And that's, I think from an ah identity standpoint, working with young athletes and coaching, like that's That's a challenge, right? Like I think, you know, intellectually they understand the idea, but like in practice, it's a lot harder, you know, in terms of like getting them to see things from that perspective.
07:53.64
David Durand
Yep.
08:00.90
Michael Huber
And that's, that's kind of what one of the reasons when I got into mental performance coaching, like I never thought that I would work with really, really young kids, like sort of on that 12, you know, that cusp of Gen Z, that 12 year old, 11 year old, 10 year old.
08:13.70
Michael Huber
I just thought it was too young. You know, I had this bias of like, why would anybody enter into that type of relationship? It's too soon. And then i I took it on just to kind of give it a try, not to dismiss it out of hand. And I think what I've learned is is that the sooner you can start to plant some of those seeds about the real basic excuse me concepts in sports psychology of what what do I control? What don't I control? right What's important to me? like Why do I do this? like Yeah, obviously, you've got to sort of operate at that level cognitively. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, you can plant those seeds where they start to look at the world a little bit differently at an earlier age.
08:48.98
Michael Huber
so you're sort of you know, counterbalancing all the other stuff that you can't do anything about, which is social media is here and it's here to stay, right? And parents as a parent, like I'm very challenged with that.
08:56.53
David Durand
Right.
08:59.17
Michael Huber
Sure. I would. I'd love it if my kids weren't on social media, a hundred percent, but that's the world that they live in, right? Like if I forced them not to be on social media, then I have a whole nother set of issues, right? But how do I teach them to operate within that construct of like, Hey, this is healthy.
09:12.16
Michael Huber
This is not. Right. And so that's kind of I think i I feel like that's part of our our jobs. And I kind of want to go back to something you said that I think is really important. And I think our difference in age is really ah reflective of this.
09:24.35
Michael Huber
When I was a high school athlete, sports were everything, when I was a kid. like The only thing I wanted to do is the only way I really measured my worth as a person 30 years ago, and there was nothing like this. right like i I was socially comparing myself to other people, and I was fear you know fear of being negatively evaluated, but I didn't have social media. I didn't have this microscope.
09:48.24
Michael Huber
That's just, I think, a natural, like you said, insecurity is a natural human. That's the way the brain works.
09:52.04
David Durand
Yeah.
09:52.68
Michael Huber
That's the way we work. Now you add this other component in that just sort of like throws gasoline on that fire. And now we're living in a world where you know that natural instinct to be insecure is sort of multiplied by you know infinite amounts because of the the comparisons that we see out in the world.
10:09.36
David Durand
No, absolutely. Yeah, it is natural. It's natural, especially as you're 11, 12, 13, 14 years of age for you to kind of be peeking over your shoulder, wondering who's watching you and kind of feel on edge and, you know, have some anxiety.
10:18.56
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
10:20.61
David Durand
It's like you're entering so a whole other stage of development just cognitively and you're becoming really like self-conscious at a higher level for kind of the first time and you're becoming more aware, you know, how's this shirt, you know, feel on my body?
10:32.40
David Durand
Does it fit right? You know, or how do people have acne? Like all of these things are kind of starting to to change and we're becoming self-critical of ourselves because we're becoming self-aware at just such a deeper level and yeah again like that's normal and natural um but we're supposed to grow out of that and I think that's what the beauty in a way that sports as a vehicle for development for personal growth can offer the youth, can offer anybody, whether you're you know a sixth grader or you're a 26-year-old professional athlete, um sports is a vehicle for developing an internal security that can you know be substantial enough to ah fight off you know, external challenges and things.
11:13.84
Michael Huber
Yes.
11:14.73
David Durand
So to be able to develop that internal security so you're not trying to get that security through, you know, external validation and always you're you're just giving your power away.
11:24.96
David Durand
You're giving your agency away if you're always looking for that, if you're always giving control to your circumstances or your feelings or these things or outcomes. Like that's just a dangerous game and I don't think anybody wants to play that in the long term.
11:37.23
David Durand
So I think again that's a beauty of of sports and and to kind of bring that back to what you're saying is that nowadays you know the the focus is always is always to to look good and so rather than um
11:38.38
Michael Huber
Yeah.
11:50.84
David Durand
kind of 15, 16, 17 years old, you're developing this this security. When I said earlier, social media really helped me hostage. Now there's data to really bring that to life, especially on on the neuroscience side and the brain development of teenagers and how habit habitual checking of social media actually holds us, you know, you know this is a ah paraphrase, but holds us kind of in that state of insecurity where we're we're still concerned so much at a really high level of what other people think about us and how we look, right?
12:20.18
David Durand
rather than, you know, I know who I am. I'm developing some identity here.
12:22.97
Michael Huber
Yes.
12:23.66
David Durand
I don't need other people's judgments. Like, yeah, I do care because that's human, but I'm not letting that paralyze me. I'm not letting that burn me out.
12:31.42
Michael Huber
Yes.
12:31.36
David Durand
And that's supposed to be the natural progression. And that's my fear is that people aren't aware that Oh, you know, it's just social media. Yeah, it is. But if you're using it a lot and you're becoming dependent on that to create your identity and and that be a source of external validation, then it's not just that that's bad.
12:43.04
Michael Huber
Yeah.
12:46.67
David Durand
It's like, what is that taking away? That's taking away your natural progression of really becoming who you are and who you're called to be and who you're invited to be. And that's the opportunity cost that I see as as the real danger.
12:58.13
Michael Huber
Yeah. And so actually it's funny, you know, I think what you said is really important, right? The identity piece is just so critical. And I actually had this conversation yesterday um about the connection between confidence and identity, right? We think of confidence and obviously we can go get into the sources of confidence that ah a young person or anybody would might experience in terms of where they get it from, right? But for me, confidence sustainably is really about knowing who you are as a person, right? What you value, what you're good at, like what you stand for. And so when those things happen externally, like you said, that we can't,
13:36.20
Michael Huber
we can't eradicate, they're going to be there.
13:37.70
David Durand
Yeah.
13:38.92
Michael Huber
We know at the core of us, like, this is who I am. So even if I play poorly, I know who I am, right? It was just a bad day versus I'm a bad person.
13:44.26
David Durand
Yes.
13:47.17
Michael Huber
And I think a lot of young people don't go through that exercise, quite frankly, of like, what do I value? What are my core values, right? Who am I as a person? Why am I doing this? And I think it you know it can be really challenging for somebody in that Gen Z age range to look at it that way, because it really does require some level of vulnerability of like, who am I?
14:07.06
David Durand
Yeah.
14:07.64
Michael Huber
Like, what do I really stand for? Like, I don't want to know that. Like, it's just easier to like operate in this superficial world and not have to sort of dig down and go like, okay, what am I all about?
14:13.63
David Durand
Right.
14:17.04
David Durand
Right. And having a guide to like, man, I wish I would have had you when I was 11 12 years old, like, that's an amazing thing.
14:19.21
Michael Huber
Yeah.
14:22.80
David Durand
Because for me, I struggle with that so much. I thought, you know, until like, honestly, fairly recently, to, you know, have gotten to the other side of this, I thought confidence just meant being sure of your yourself.
14:33.12
Michael Huber
Right.
14:32.89
David Durand
I thought it was just a feeling and I felt so unsure of myself no matter how much I practice and and that's really why I practice and prepared and trained so much. really I loved it, yeah, but like i I was obsessed with practicing and preparing because I was trying to eradicate the insecurity of failing.
14:49.97
Michael Huber
Right.
14:49.73
David Durand
Right. I was, I was trying to erase the possibility of failure. I mean, I couldn't do that, right?
14:54.67
Michael Huber
Right.
14:54.26
David Durand
Nobody can do that. And so it was ah an uphill battle.
14:55.65
Michael Huber
No.
14:57.29
David Durand
But for me, you know, I thought confidence is feeling sure of myself and I didn't feel sure of myself. So I was like, I guess I'm not confident. and I'm over here just thinking I'm a freak living in my own little internal world. um And then realizing like, that's normal.
15:08.03
David Durand
That's like every human feels that you should feel like an imposter.
15:09.21
Michael Huber
Yeah.
15:11.51
David Durand
If you're doing something challenging and new and uncertain,
15:13.57
Michael Huber
Yeah.
15:14.35
David Durand
then yeah, you shouldn't feel sure of yourself. That's a good sign. That's fantastic. And so for me, realizing that confidence, you know, coming from that Latin word, confidere, meaning to trust, it's really exactly what you said, like the the ability to trust yourself.
15:24.26
Michael Huber
and
15:27.02
David Durand
You have to trust and know who you are. There has to be something a little bit deeper there at the core of you that you can tap into. Again, that that's something substantial that can really weather the storms when those waves are rocking and rolling, something you can anchor into and stay stable.
15:41.32
David Durand
And so, yeah, I love that that idea of confidence and identity. I think they are inextricably linked.
15:44.73
Michael Huber
Yeah. Yeah. And just to kind of talk about the work that we both do, right? You work with young people. I work with young people. We both have sort of a mental training background. You do some other things and maybe we'll get into that in terms of like working with athletes on the sports side. But like, I think the word that came to mind and you didn't use it, but you basically said it, you know, if we use sort of more sports, psychology and languages, like it's, you know, you kind of build these buffers, right? Like these mediators of like, Hey, the external world's going to be there. We can't do anything about it, but what do we do with ourselves to make sure that we can sort of
16:17.00
Michael Huber
push that away and ward it off when it tries to come in and kind of seep into the core of who we are and i like what you said i mean i obviously i take it as a compliment but i think it's for any of us that work in this field like i really do believe that to be true is we are we are buffers for young people right we're sort of starting to help them you know, think about things differently so that they can deal with the world around them the way it is because it's not going to change.
16:40.05
Michael Huber
If we try to, this this is my personal opinion, right? If we can try to change the system and that's noble and it's great, but it's going to be really hard versus how do I change the individual and help them think about things differently so that they have these buffers, they have that shield around them that says, Hey, I know this is going on, but I can look at it differently.
16:56.80
David Durand
you know
16:57.58
Michael Huber
I can accept it. I can, I have something in my control that allows me to sort of redirect my attention to what can I do to make this a better situation versus, oh, I really wish that people on the outside and recognize me, knew me, like me, whatever, right?
17:11.61
David Durand
Right.
17:13.76
Michael Huber
And I feel like that's a huge responsibility for folks like us that do what we do because I think, unfortunately, a lot of families, and and I work mostly with young people, a lot of families feel that need to find somebody on you know a third party to help their kids understand that because there's so many of these pressures in the world.
17:30.42
Michael Huber
Like you said, they're they're being held hostage, generally, to social media, but just to this whole world of recruiting and all this stuff that goes on in the sports world. It's really, really challenging.
17:39.87
David Durand
Absolutely. Yeah. It takes a village to raise a child, right?
17:42.75
Michael Huber
Yeah, it does.
17:42.79
David Durand
there's like so many there' There's so many forces for good that we can bring in to really help our development like ah ourselves, first and foremost. and you know If you're raising children, you know your your students, your athletes, whatever role you are, but it's just like we're formed by so many things.
17:57.61
David Durand
Why not you know stack the the cards in your favor, be able to pull people into that? Um, and yeah, it's like people, we need people, especially if you're between the ages, you have 10 and 18, you really need somebody to walk with you through this kind of stuff.
18:10.58
David Durand
And this is why, you know, we talked about this. We're both very passionate about this one.
18:15.02
Michael Huber
Yeah.
18:14.70
David Durand
It's like front load the work. We did it on the back end, which this was the case, like,
18:17.73
Michael Huber
Right.
18:19.55
David Durand
But now it's like that's what's driving our mission to really help young people.
18:23.37
Michael Huber
Yes.
18:23.24
David Durand
It's just like, man, I know what it's like to do, you know, later in life and have to undo so many things. Like if you set this straight when you're really starting and when you're going through this, like someone to walk with you in that, like we all want that.
18:35.21
David Durand
We all want a companion in it. And so, you know, and just to highlight something, I'm i'm working with a soccer player right now, high school soccer player, sophomore, and, ah you know, suffered a season ending injury.
18:37.51
Michael Huber
Yes.
18:46.56
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
18:46.38
David Durand
And so. His identity in a lot of ways is soccer is as a soccer player fantastic player But now right he has all this teenage insecurity that's inside of him that he's usually able to kind of push away because he's so good at soccer and Now he can't play so that is kind of starting to take over a little bit more and he's coming to this realization of like man like I I want to be more than this like I don't just want to be the soccer player like I want to be who I am.
18:56.20
Michael Huber
Yeah.
19:13.75
David Durand
And this is just something I do. And then he comes to question, right, how do I do that? How do I step more into that, you know, and so that way, I'm able to really face these insecurities and accept them and and and deal with them, rather than, you know, having to keep pushing them back and, you know, kind of, you know,
19:31.54
David Durand
face it and in that way and avoid it. And so um anyway, it's just interesting. I feel like that comes up all the time.
19:37.58
Michael Huber
Yeah.
19:38.27
David Durand
I had that in my own journey and you know athletes are looking for a guide to walk with them because it's the big question, the million dollar question of how do I do that?
19:42.85
Michael Huber
Sure.
19:45.77
Michael Huber
Yeah and and I want to just kind of stay with that example because I've been in that boat too as a mental performance coach working with athletes who are injured and absolutely right the fact that that young person was able to look at it and like kind of assess and go like I want to be more than this just this is incredible right that he was able to say or she was able to say hey like i This can't be everything.
20:06.71
Michael Huber
The other thing I have done and like to do a lot too is sort of highlight the character building elements and opportunity that comes through injury. Because if I can come through this experience out the other side, what does that say about me as a person?
20:16.10
David Durand
Yep.
20:20.08
David Durand
Right.
20:22.28
Michael Huber
I'm pretty darn tough. right Now I've gotten through this, I can come back the other side of it and be even better. but Not because i was you know I was away from my sport and I'm scared that I'm going to get worse skill-wise or I'm not going to be i'm going to get behind, but when I come back, the other kids that I'm playing or players I'm playing against haven't been through what I've been through and I've been able to do it.
20:29.16
David Durand
Yes.
20:36.05
David Durand
Yeah. Yeah.
20:43.16
Michael Huber
Now all of a sudden you've got this element of mental toughness, if you want to call it, not my favorite term, but ah the best way to say it from right now is,
20:48.23
David Durand
You're right. I'm with you.
20:50.37
Michael Huber
come out the backside of it, be like, hey, I was through this, like, I can do anything, right?
20:53.54
David Durand
Right.
20:54.18
Michael Huber
And I think sometimes there's just that fear of missing out, like, I'm away from this, it's gonna really hurt me versus, hey, maybe I can use this to my advantage if I just look at it a certain way. And not the easiest thing to try to get a young person to do or anybody to do for that matter, but if you can, it could be really, really long lasting, the effect can be very long lasting.
21:04.62
David Durand
Yeah. No.
21:13.68
David Durand
Absolutely. Man, I love that.
21:14.82
Michael Huber
Yeah.
21:15.08
David Durand
And I faced so many injuries in my own journey. It's something I'm definitely passionate about. And so kind of going through this with that player and other players in the past, I've kind of, I'm one of the book projects I'm working on is called better than before.
21:22.35
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
21:26.55
David Durand
So it's a mental guide for injured athletes.
21:29.07
Michael Huber
Yeah.
21:29.07
David Durand
And so that's, you know, something I'm putting together for that idea of like better than before.
21:30.95
Michael Huber
Cool.
21:32.82
David Durand
Like you're not just coming back and hopefully going to make it to where you were.
21:34.64
Michael Huber
Yes.
21:36.16
David Durand
the the The idea is to come back better than before. And I use the image of like, if you picture a bunch of athletes, like a whole team running around a track and everybody's trying to do as many laps as they can.
21:43.59
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
21:45.80
David Durand
and a coach come and he he pulls you out and he says hey you got to you know stand over here everybody else is gonna run you're just gonna be watching okay that athlete can stand there and watch and just kind of count be like okay everybody else's laps are going up and I'm not I'm standing over here and everybody's getting in better shape and I'm not and I'm standing over here um it and it can do that it can get down and then you know when they're tossed back in, they're way behind.
22:06.77
David Durand
However, the athlete could also be like, Hey, let me watch this. Like how can I change my running form so I can be more efficient? You know, what are, what are mistakes other people are making? What are they doing? Well, that I can learn from, Hey, what exercises can I do that?
22:18.93
David Durand
I don't get shin splints. So my body's more resilient or you know what?
22:20.88
Michael Huber
Correct.
22:21.93
David Durand
Hey, I'm dealing with boredom. Am I going to be dealing with boredom when I'm running? Yeah, you betcha. So why not get mentally stronger now in this you know arena?
22:27.88
Michael Huber
Yeah.
22:28.87
David Durand
And then that'll transfer over to that.
22:30.59
Michael Huber
Yes.
22:30.31
David Durand
So it's like a totally different perspective of like, no, you're not standing still. You're just in a, you're still in the game. It just, the game looks different. And so play this different game so that when you go back, you're actually better than before.
22:40.67
Michael Huber
Yes. I like that.
22:41.75
David Durand
And that kind of, you know, just trying to change that perspective. Yeah. It's a challenge, but once they buy into that, you know, it's's it's, it's, it's different.
22:48.35
Michael Huber
Very cool. I like that. um So you mentioned you have a, you're working on a book project, but you also have a book that's out. Can you talk about the book that you have out there now?
22:58.27
David Durand
Yeah, absolutely. So it's called bet on it, a psychological approach to coaching Gen Z and beyond in bet is an acronym for breath eyes and touch. And so again, you know, you and I are talking about the stress that Gen Z faces and just, you know, a lot of dysregulation, a lot of just not being able to regulate their own emotions, their own thoughts.
23:07.25
Michael Huber
Yeah.
23:17.17
David Durand
you know, their own their own bodies and brains. And so trying to to help with that um through these three pathways, the breath, the eyes and the touch are three pathways that we can really regulate our energy, that we can really regulate um our our mood and how we're performing and just overall health and wellbeing.
23:35.17
David Durand
So the the first half of the book kind of takes a psychological approach to understanding Gen Z's talking about things like social media and how that's impacting them but it also gives a framework for coaches and parents to understand these modern young athletes and then the second part is really kind of the practical tools part so like practical tools through you know breath eyes and touch that you can implement as a parent as a coach to be able to help them reduce their stress increase their ability to be you know receptive to feedback their ability to perform on the court but also just their ability to um you know feel better so
23:56.22
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
24:09.92
Michael Huber
Yeah. So, you know, I think I'm i'm really yeah interested in the acronym, right? I think, so for me, the B part, the breathing, like that's, you know, that's, that's a staple, right?
24:21.80
Michael Huber
Any time I work with a young athlete, you know, obviously they've all been told, you know, I asked them, you know, how many times have you had someone tell you, just take a deep breath. And, you know, they, they obviously say yes, but they don't really understand the why or the how.
24:30.07
David Durand
right
24:35.48
Michael Huber
right Which is something I think as mental performance coaches we normally work on.
24:35.72
David Durand
right
24:38.92
Michael Huber
right This is how you do it. This is why you do it. This is what it does. This is how you apply it. But the other two I'm um more curious about. So tell me about the eyes and the touch. like what are athletes what you What do you suggest athletes use in terms of their eyes and their touch to help regulate their nervous system and sort of be able to regulate their moods as they need to?
24:57.14
David Durand
Right. Right. Sure. So with eyes, stress and vision are so intertwined. So when we become into a state of stress of, you know, sympathetic arousal and, in you know, our hearts racing, our minds starting to race, our shoulders are raising, we're breathing more with our upper chest and out of our mouth.
25:09.50
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
25:15.49
Michael Huber
Yeah.
25:15.59
David Durand
And whether it's in performance or you're just getting nervous before a game, whatever it is, we that our pupils dilate and our vision gets really narrow and focused.
25:19.80
Michael Huber
Sure.
25:26.36
David Durand
So we literally get tunnel vision.
25:27.46
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
25:28.64
David Durand
And I say that that happens you know biologically, like externally, but it also happens internally. We get real tunnel vision and stuck on things and we're not able to be as flexible and as open as we would like, which, you know, as we know, competition requires, it doesn't require you to be a robot.
25:43.37
Michael Huber
Yeah Yeah
25:44.07
David Durand
It requires you to be adaptable and be able to ah tolerate, you know, the uncertainty and deal with challenges and solve problems and make decisions. So you have to be open and adaptable and and fluid and flexible.
25:56.62
David Durand
So as an athlete, when you, when you get stressed and you're really stressed and you're putting that pressure on yourself, you're you're not just, you know, hurting yourself on the inside, but literally your vision is, um, is limiting.
26:07.04
David Durand
And so you need to have a wider scope, especially, you know, think of like, uh, yeah, many sports, but even just like soccer, you're on the field. That's a big field. You got to have wide vision, right? You got to be able to not only have wide vision, but sometimes, yeah, you need to narrow it.
26:17.65
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
26:20.69
David Durand
So the, the key piece here is that when you're in a state of dysregulation in a state of real stress, whether that be you're stressed and you're kind of, you know, go, go, go.
26:23.35
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
26:30.24
David Durand
And you're really anxious or you're in shutdown and you're kind of just going through the motions and you're lethargic. When you're dysregulated, we have less control of that switch, of being flexible, going back and forth.
26:40.63
David Durand
And so if I'm playing soccer, yeah, I want to look at the field, the whole field, and then I want to be able to zone in on a teammate for that pass. Or I want to look at that whole field, and then I want to be able to look at where on the goal I'm trying to strike that ball. So we lose control of that.
26:52.15
David Durand
And it becomes, we become really locked in.
26:55.13
Michael Huber
Sure.
26:54.93
David Durand
um And so, you know, eyes is really important to be able to ah get control of our eyes more so that way, so that way we feel less stressed and we can perform better.
26:56.96
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
27:05.46
David Durand
And, you know, each of these pathways is bi-directional. So one impacts the other, right? They go both ways. So it's like, I get stressed and that impacts my vision, but I can also do things with my eyes, which are the tools, and that'll impact the stress and that'll decrease.
27:18.04
David Durand
the stress So I love that bi-directional pathway because it's it's not like it's a hopeless cause. Oh, I get stressed. Now my vision's tanked. It's like, no, there's specific things we can do. And we can talk about maybe specific tools that athletes can do to be able to to to change it.
27:28.56
Michael Huber
Yeah.
27:32.20
Michael Huber
Well, I was going to ask you that. question I'm going to ask you that question just in a second. but And I agree with that, right? That kind of goes both ways. But to me, like you know for me, and we haven't really talked about this much, but like that awareness, right the the ability to be self-aware enough to know that I'm getting that tunnel vision, that it's happening, is so critical, right? That ability to recognize it and go, OK, I am stressed.
27:55.81
Michael Huber
my eyes are not they're locked in on something that's too specific or or I'm fixating on something too much. Okay, now that I know it, now I need to do something different to modify. right and so like In terms of those things that you do with your eyes, like what are maybe one or two examples of things that an athlete can do if they notice themselves getting too fixated on something visually? What could they do to sort of soften that?
28:20.51
David Durand
Right. Yeah. So one thing specifically is called landscape or panoramic vision. And so we can do it right now as we're on air. But if you just kind of look ahead, wherever you are, just look ahead like a spot in the room or spot in the distance.
28:33.86
David Durand
And as you're you know focusing your eyes forward go ahead and just notice the panoramic, the periphery of your vision, the top as high as you can, the bottom as high as you can, and the sides as far as you can.
28:45.93
David Durand
And when you're holding your gaze forward in the center and you're noticing the top, the bottom, and the sides, that peripheral vision, then you're engaging in a relaxation response.
28:53.62
Michael Huber
Yeah. Yeah.
28:55.95
David Durand
and so you're switching from sympathetic to parasympathetic there So that's a way, ah you know, athletes, I like to do that with them.
28:57.87
Michael Huber
Excellent.
29:02.61
Michael Huber
Yeah.
29:02.11
David Durand
It kind of helps them re enter that state of just kind of calm and composure, like halftime, end of quarters, timeouts, things like that. But then specifically, you're in competition, say you notice, you know, you're kind of doing that.
29:13.94
David Durand
um One thing too, that you can do is focus your eyes more on the open spaces in the courtd i think as athletes we get so fixated on where the defense is and where the people are but once you start to really focus your eyes on the space you don't see threats you see opportunities and so if I'm looking at the defender I'm looking at this which you know is necessary sometimes and there's specifics and there's nuance there for each sport and each athlete but if you're focusing more of your vision on space you're seeing opportunity that's going to give you the green light now you're having more fun because you're excited to attack that space rather than to have to kind of defend yourself against you know these opponents.
29:24.30
Michael Huber
yes
29:30.71
Michael Huber
Yeah.
29:49.77
Michael Huber
Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things that are are really awesome about what what you just said there. Right. So like one is like, I think about the applications outside of sport too. Like I just had a a client of mine come to me who's in high school, who's taking, he's getting ready to take the SATs and he's having a hard time focusing on some of the reading comprehension. And so I was sort of giving him some like tips on how to like manage that stress. Right. And that visual pieces, I think my hypothesis is, is that it's a huge part of it, right? Like you start to lock in on a paragraph and like you're looking at like specific words versus sort of seeing
30:24.46
Michael Huber
the big picture like that panoramic strategy could be something that is really valuable when you're taking a test like hey just reset your focus right not widen it and just so like engage that's that that relaxation response rather than just staring at the paragraph over and over and over again trying to find that answer and i think that's hard sometimes right whether it's in sport or otherwise or when we start to look at things that in our mind seem task irrelevant
30:41.29
David Durand
Mm hmm.
30:50.32
Michael Huber
Like we almost feel like we're doing something wrong versus like, Hey, if I just take this next 10 seconds to like recalibrate, it's actually going to help me on the next play versus like, Oh, I can't take away my focus. The other thing that I think you just, um, you were saying about like, um, fixating on a target, right? Like on a, on a object.
31:09.42
Michael Huber
like It's so funny you say that because like I noticed that so much in soccer. Both my kids play soccer. and you know When kids are kicking the ball, they end up kicking it right at the keeper a lot of times because that's sort of their like focal point versus like rather than looking at the keeper, like am I looking at the upper right-hand corner?
31:25.08
Michael Huber
Am I looking at that empty space rather than fixating on, like oh, there's my target.
31:25.01
David Durand
Yeah.
31:29.04
Michael Huber
I got to avoid it rather than that's the target I want to hit and look at that target. right and so like
31:34.03
David Durand
Right.
31:34.64
Michael Huber
We have a natural tendency and I think there's some there's a pretty fair amount of research out there on that particular topic Just in terms of why soccer players kick the ball right at the keeper because like that's sort of like where they're putting your focus Yeah scan
31:36.51
David Durand
Yep.
31:45.79
David Durand
Right. And, and I love that. And it's important to, you know, when you have time, like I, you know, when I played soccer, I played defender. So you're in the back line, you got a lot of time to like see the field and kind of wait and stuff, right? Scan and and scanning a great word, like is important.
31:58.83
David Durand
And we need to be more exploratory with our vision or else we're going to get locked into just like, you know, specific pathways. And competition is creative. We need to be creative. We need to solve problems.
32:09.21
David Durand
We need to look ahead. So if you're scanning, right, and you're seeing the space, okay, but also you're scanning oh my teammate out there he looks dead tired what does that mean to me that means that maybe he's not gonna get back on defense the next couple plays and I needed to get my butt ready to cover for him right or look oh I can tell like he's getting you know the person on the other team is getting frustrated with their teammate that's a weak spot let's attack that side of the field like just when you're scanning you're getting information and you get you know I love using the eyes as an exit out of our head because I was a player and an athlete that i would get so caught up in my head because i'm very analytical and i love to try and solve problems just by thinking through it.
32:46.06
David Durand
And and being an athlete is really not about using the front of your brain. It's more about using the back of your brain and your instincts and just playing free. And so I love using the eyes as an exit out of your head because I would realize that it's like when I was competing and I would get caught in my head, it's like I was there, but I wasn't really there.
33:04.63
David Durand
And if you're a coach, you really know what I'm talking about or a parent, right? And your your kids eyes are just kind of glazed over right they're there but
33:10.26
Michael Huber
Yeah.
33:10.99
David Durand
they're not really present They're not really engaged. It's like, that's what I was doing. I was playing the game in my head rather than the game on the court where I was trying to pre-determine things before they had, okay, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. And then that doesn't go as planned on dominant one.
33:23.52
David Durand
And the rest of it just, you know, falls down.
33:26.12
Michael Huber
yeah
33:25.73
David Durand
And so really helping people trust that instinct and build that confidence by like, Hey, we can't plan and prepare, you know, for every little thing that's going to happen, but we can build instincts and we can build that confidence so that you can trust yourself and, you know, be dynamic in the game.
33:33.68
Michael Huber
Mm.
33:41.40
Michael Huber
Yeah, and i I have to admit, I'm going to um'm gonna use that one, you know. um Eyes is an exit, right?
33:45.76
David Durand
Yeah.
33:48.16
Michael Huber
but ah You know, out of your head, I love it.
33:48.99
David Durand
Yeah.
33:50.65
Michael Huber
And because it's it's so true, right? So I think that's a great way to explain it. I really appreciate that explanation, because like I think it's really valuable. right because what you described i think is what a lot of you young young athletes go through is that they get the phrase you know is you know that he's in his head and the truth is they are in their head right there internally focused on you know the result or what they're supposed to be doing versus playing the game out here now sometimes you gotta come in right into your head and sort of
33:58.54
David Durand
Right.
34:06.32
David Durand
Right.
34:13.12
David Durand
Right. know
34:16.37
Michael Huber
have that sort of strategy part where you're kind of planning things out, but you got to know the right time to take it out and put it into the right place.
34:22.88
David Durand
and
34:24.54
Michael Huber
And that takes practice shift in your focus. And I think that, you know, that, that example about also noticing when a teammate may be a little bit gassed, like that takes a lot of awareness and a lot of like, okay, like I see that I, I, I process it.
34:37.62
Michael Huber
I put it in the back of my, you know, short-term memory and I, then I go. Right. And so like, those are things I think a lot of athletes aren't coached on and they're not thinking about it.
34:45.73
David Durand
Yeah,
34:46.49
Michael Huber
Right. And just to build that awareness is a step forward.
34:47.05
David Durand
right.
34:49.05
Michael Huber
Um, so, so, so tell me about the last piece, the touch piece.
34:49.28
David Durand
yeah
34:53.04
David Durand
Yeah, so the touch is huge just because you know the the part of our brain, but when we're talking physical touch, i mean that's huge right just for humans and the you know research and science behind attachment growing up and everything.
34:59.82
Michael Huber
Hmm.
35:02.28
Michael Huber
Yeah.
35:04.35
David Durand
But touch is so big in regulating our emotions.
35:04.97
Michael Huber
Sure.
35:08.67
David Durand
The part of our you know brain, the somatosensory cortex, which just really is a big key in how we process touch is right there and and really helps with our, you know, emotion regulation and, you know, it can send some signals to the the part of us that's kind of processing like fear and anxiety and things like that.
35:26.66
David Durand
So it can really dampen down the stress response. That's why, you know, you hear things like grounding and, you know, things like that. So that's why, you know, especially like the mental health rate, like the poppets were so big or just like this, is the fidget spinner like things like that just to really get your hands on something helps you feel a little bit more here and present and less abstract and kind of floating and anxious.
35:40.67
Michael Huber
Yeah. Good point.
35:46.05
Michael Huber
Mm-hmm.
35:47.14
David Durand
So I think it's huge you know pre-game during games all the time to really be engaging physical touch it's also huge in team sports or non-team sports
35:54.97
Michael Huber
Yes.
35:55.67
David Durand
to really build the camaraderie you know like oxytocin is kind of the main molecule here the main chemical that is released through physical touch and that's a that's a here and now chemical which means it really builds bonds in the present moment right dopamine is more of this like push forward i want more and you know i always feel like i have to do more type of thing
35:56.75
Michael Huber
Yes.
36:15.45
David Durand
oxytocin is more of like it's contained on here, it's building bonds in the present moment. And so that's that's really big, just to have that physical touch and to have those gestures. um So it's not only, we not only as social creatures self-regulate, but we co-regulate. And so I think touch definitely has some implications for individual performance, like let's just take the example of a basketball player shooting a free throw I'm going to incorporate all three of those B E N T.
36:41.88
David Durand
So like a deep breath to be able to settle their nervous system eyes. I'm gonna fixate their eyes on a specific part, usually the back of the rim so that they're aligned there and then touch. I'm going to have them, you know, take a moment to really like feel the ball on their hands and not just go through the motions.
36:55.58
David Durand
That's going to help them tune out the distractions of what's going on around them and engage like in their core of who they are in that present moment.
36:56.86
Michael Huber
Yes.
37:02.40
David Durand
And so now when we. Bring our minds, bring our attention, bring our awareness into our touch. We're dampening down the stress response. and We're increasing our ability to connect with that present moment.
37:14.08
Michael Huber
I love that. That's awesome. No, and I think that last piece, you know, in that example with the basketball player, I think about this a lot is like, you know, when you think of like, um any sort of mindfulness, right, activity, it's really about noticing, right?
37:25.17
David Durand
Yeah.
37:26.99
Michael Huber
It's really about really engaging with whatever it is you're doing, right?
37:27.57
David Durand
yeah
37:30.36
Michael Huber
And if you're touching a basketball and you really have this like, intimate familiarity with the sort of the texture and the way it feels. And like you can be really immersed in that to be present as a tool and not think about all this other stuff that's going on around you, which you can't do anything about.
37:37.15
David Durand
Yeah.
37:47.50
Michael Huber
And I think that that's a really good way to build a routine, just use that framework of BED.
37:48.23
David Durand
Absolutely.
37:52.15
Michael Huber
I think that's really cool.
37:52.92
David Durand
Right.
37:53.81
Michael Huber
um Right.
37:53.60
David Durand
And, and just the sequence too of the BET, like, like you said earlier, there's times where you want to kind of come into yourself and like be present. And then like also, you know, we know that we need to get out of ourselves and we need to play free and play by instinct.
38:06.53
David Durand
So yeah, breath is a good way. And even when we become kind of mindful of our breathing, we slow down, there's a part of our brain, more of that salience network, the insula, the anterior cingulate cortex like all these parts that are more for just kind of being internal and noticing things, um but then we need to be brought external.
38:22.31
David Durand
We have to externalize our attention and we don't want to get caught up in ourselves too much. So to be able to breathe and come into ourselves, find our center, you know, anchor down, ah settle down, and then be able to go out through our eyes and then through our touch.
38:34.45
David Durand
Because if I'm using my eyes, focus on the back of the rim, I'm noticing my touch. Okay, I'm not worried about my motion that I've practiced a million times. I don't need to think about that. I'm not worried about that fan yelling or that person, you know, that opponent making a face at me or trash talking, whatever.
38:45.54
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
38:48.45
David Durand
it's like, no, I'm here, I'm with myself and now I'm being brought into, you know, my next action. So I think it's the the order is important as well.
38:54.24
Michael Huber
Excellent.
38:57.06
Michael Huber
Excellent. So who who did you write the book for or what was the what's the what's the practical application?
39:02.80
David Durand
Yeah. Yeah, so I wrote it for particularly high school coaches.
39:08.32
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
39:08.33
David Durand
I think this is good stuff. There's you know at least a chapter in there for everybody, but you know athletes, former athletes, parents, coaches, and you know you can really pick up some educational things and a lot of resources and references in the back.
39:20.11
David Durand
But for me, how this came about was I was working with two high school, two girls high school volleyball teams. And the more I've watched high school volleyball ive gotten into volleyball the past like five, six years,
39:31.17
David Durand
I don't see ah I don't see the best team always winning. It's really the the team that's maybe a little bit better at regulating their emotions and energy. And um for me, it shows that, hey, well, if you can control kind of your stress response a little bit better and then stay together as a team, then that would be great.
39:43.82
Michael Huber
Hmm.
39:49.34
David Durand
So I did two kind of camps. I call them combines because I combine the mental, the physical and the sports performance pieces. And it was like a multi-day kind of combine camp for both these teams.
39:59.59
David Durand
I was like, man, what am I going to call this? Like how am I going to do this? And ah that kind of came to me of just like, well, you know, what I think breathing is a big piece and, you know, eyes and touch. And this can be a way to really help them one regulate because yeah, it's helping them as high school students just like on test if you have pre-test anxiety you can use the same tools
40:13.80
Michael Huber
Yep.
40:15.98
David Durand
you know at home you know, boy drama, friend drama, like all the things, right?
40:18.50
Michael Huber
Yep, you got it.
40:19.90
David Durand
Like you can use these things to to regulate. And so it's just like, i'm I'm all about that. Like seeing the person behind the player, it's like, yeah, I want you to score more points in volleyball. But at some day, you know, volleyball is not going to really matter that much.
40:32.21
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
40:32.79
David Durand
And you're going to have to give it up. And you know, what did it teach you? And what did you learn that you can carry it with you for the rest of your life? And I think that's really the value is.
40:40.16
Michael Huber
Yeah, awesome.
40:41.49
David Durand
So it's forward. So to answer your question, then it's for coaches, because I'm also seeing that coaches that are really in it, the people like we talked earlier, it's important for people to really help adolescents. But man, it's a tough job, right?
40:52.01
David Durand
If you're a pyramid adolescent, like you know that first and foremost but i think high school teachers like really know that and they can get burned out pretty bad and I think the ones that care the most and put the most time and energy are the ones that tend to get kind of burned the worst at times so and so I see it as like a mission to really help them like if I can equip them with just some like tools and knowledge one to change their approach so they're not always assuming things like we look at an adolescent rolling their eyes or coming to practice drain of energy and we just assume that they're unwilling or unmotivated but maybe there's more to the story there so can we understand them connect with them better and then we get more return on our investment.
40:59.16
Michael Huber
Sure.
41:05.77
Michael Huber
Yeah. Yeah.
41:18.52
Michael Huber
a
41:24.12
Michael Huber
Yeah. Love it. Yes. We haven't really touched on that at all, but I wrote that down as I was preparing. um I think that understanding, right that idea of... you know I just had this another conversation with another athlete that I work with. He's young. He's a freshman in high school. and we But we were talking about school and his interaction, his relationship with his teachers, and I was trying to sort of explain them or at least help him see differently. like Sometimes teachers take things personally because they're human and because they have 30 students in a room or they have 100 students a day and they're always giving instructions and they're trying to help and they're trying to be their best and then they don't get they don't get the feedback or the response that they're expecting and that creates a frustration. And so when they don't give you what you want as an individual, it may not be because they don't like you or they because they don't understand you. It's because maybe they've got all this other stuff going on and they can't separate either.
42:20.75
Michael Huber
And I think being able to give these kinds of tools to coaches is really important. I mean, listen, truthfully, I think we live in a world where not every coach wants to engage or understand this stuff.
42:29.81
David Durand
Right.
42:30.78
Michael Huber
They feel like, you know, I don't need to or my way works, whatever. And that's fine. Like I get it. It's a hard job and everybody's different and I don't do it. um But at the same time, there are coaches, I think more and more and parents out there who want to understand what can I do to understand my young person better so that I can be there for them the best they can and so I don't burn out or I don't behave in a way that I don't like because of all these emotions in terms of trying to be really good at my job because it's hard.
42:38.06
David Durand
Right.
42:51.77
David Durand
Right.
42:57.62
Michael Huber
And I think that understanding piece is such a big part of what we do, right? Helping to make connections for everybody to say like, hey, can you kind of see it through the other person's eyes to make sense of it rather than just seeing it your way?
43:01.26
David Durand
Yeah.
43:09.22
David Durand
Right. And that's, I'm glad you said that, man, because I feel so wrong in that sometimes because everybody's about the practical tools or what can I do? And, and I get it. It's necessary. I'm here for it.
43:19.79
David Durand
I'm, you know, trying to bring that as well. But like, I think at times that kind of just feeds that desire for like a quick fix or that desire to just take away the issue when it's like, these are human issues and they're here to stay.
43:28.19
Michael Huber
Correct Correct
43:31.37
David Durand
Like your anxiety can't be solved. Your human anxiety cannot be solved. ah But you can be helped, right? I can be helped. You can be helped. We can be brought into a ah more ah balanced place and, and, and really grow in that.
43:43.54
David Durand
And so for me, it's like, man, if you can change and alter, yeah, if you can change the approach, like how a coach approaches an athlete, which the way to changing that is their own understanding and awareness of really what's going on behind the scenes, um and really being able to step forward in a different way.
43:59.51
David Durand
And so for me, that's, that's the value is to change your approach because and then that changes the dynamic, that changes the atmosphere, that changes the relationship.
44:03.49
Michael Huber
A hundred percent.
44:08.18
David Durand
And whether it's sports or anything in life, it's the relationship that's the most valuable thing that we're building here.
44:11.82
Michael Huber
Yes.
44:13.66
David Durand
And it's the relationship that over time is going to form us and change us as humans. So I think that's really what I like to hone in on. And that's why I put that part first in the book.
44:22.54
Michael Huber
Yeah, I love it. So I'm going to segue into like the final question, the final segment, but I'm going to use what we just talked about as a way to do that.
44:27.42
David Durand
Yeah.
44:30.40
Michael Huber
So one of the most common questions I get from adults, from parents or coaches or whatever is like, what advice would you, Mike, have for me as a mental performance coach?
44:40.81
Michael Huber
And it kindes kind of it ties right into what you were just saying. my My number one piece of advice if I give it to anybody is ask more questions, right? Rather than telling them what to do, especially if you're not telling them why they're doing it, ask them, try to understand where they're coming from, even if it's even if it's um superficial or cursory, right?
44:56.00
David Durand
yeah Right.
44:59.69
Michael Huber
But just by virtue of asking that question, it demonstrates a level of curiosity and respect for the young person where they start to say, oh, okay, this person is actually wants to understand what I have to say versus, no, I'm the grownup.
45:13.26
Michael Huber
you're the kid, you need to go do this because I said so.
45:12.97
David Durand
Yeah.
45:16.51
Michael Huber
Which doesn't work, right?
45:16.63
David Durand
Right.
45:17.59
Michael Huber
If we know anything about, or if we we know something about Gen Z, which you know I've been doing my research is, and I think this comes up a lot, is they want to know why.
45:21.47
David Durand
Right.
45:25.61
Michael Huber
Why am I doing this? If you don't explain to them why, they're not going to want to do it. If you ask them questions, now all of a sudden it seems like, hey, they're important. Their opinion matters. And I think that that for me is the number one piece of advice that I would give to an adult. So as we kind of say, well, like, what's that one piece of advice you would give to anybody? Like, you know, that's where I sort of like to end is like, what's that one thing, right? Do you think is the most valuable thing you could share if you had to sort of boil it down?
45:50.68
David Durand
Yeah, man
45:52.85
Michael Huber
I know it's hard.
45:53.12
David Durand
it's for yeah but for me it's like I just want to piggyback off you because it's like yeah it's ask questions it's be with them and I have like an example in the book and can I share it real quick it's just a little kind of tidbit and the image is you know picture like an office building and you know there's ah a boss and there's a worker and the worker, their printer broke.
46:03.94
Michael Huber
Of course. Yeah, go ahead.
46:13.96
David Durand
And so the boss is like going over to their little cubicle to tell them the printer's broken and they need to fix it because they need to print stuff. And as they're walking over there, the the workers like gets up and they think the building's on fire.
46:25.02
David Durand
So they're frazzled and they're wide eyed and they're running out of the building. It's on fire and they're yelling and the boss stops them. It's like, hey, like we need this printer fixed. The building's not on fire. We need the printer fixed. Go fix the printer.
46:35.85
David Durand
and the worker looks at the boss like they're crazy right and so they sprint out the building um and then right they get nowhere it's like they're on two different pages um and the boss thinks that the worker's crazy and the worker thinks that the boss is pretty crazy and then I equate that to how coaching and parenting can be a lot of times we're coming at it as if it's like a logistical issue it's an informational thing um and I always say put regulation before information because if they're not regulated if you're not regulated and you're coming at this you're just putting defenses up right you're just kind of you know playing rock-and-stock and robots you're not actually connecting it getting anywhere and so for me it's put regulation before information so if you take that same situation and you know maybe the boss is like the building's not on fire this person's kind of crazy but you know i'm going to run out the building with them they run out the building and they're you know outside and they're kind of breathing heavy from running and then the workers looking at it and doesn't see smoke and kind of you know it takes a minute and then they're like I guess there wasn't a fire maybe I just heard an alarm I don't know and then the boss is like all right well let's you know go back inside and they kind of you know chitchat and mosey back up inside and make sure that they're safe and secure.
46:44.82
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
46:54.26
Michael Huber
Mm hmm.
47:08.56
Michael Huber
like
47:12.74
Michael Huber
yeah
47:42.34
David Durand
And it's like, Hey, I know you said, you know, you're trying to hit this metric for for this month, would love for you to be able to fix the printer so that we can kind of work towards that together. Like, would you be able to do that? That is a much different situation.
47:52.84
Michael Huber
Yes.
47:53.35
David Durand
That's going to be a much different outcome, right? Just to be able, you know, to ah enter into the other side and be with them and what they're going through, whether you think it's reality or not like they feel it and experience it as reality sometimes so to be able to be with them in that and kind of walk with them and then that way you're getting what you want and the one of the coolest things I feel like that was said to me most recently along the vein of the the book in counseling and psychology is called polyvagal theory.
48:18.92
David Durand
It's kind of what the book's based in.
48:20.33
Michael Huber
okay
48:20.04
David Durand
But um a lady that's like really big in that, Deb Dana, she's amazing. And she told me, she was like, they need to feel safe enough to do what you're asking them to do. And a lot of times we're just as coaches or as parents trying to just tell them logistical things, you need to do your homework, you need to do this, you need to do that.
48:36.01
Michael Huber
Yup.
48:36.86
David Durand
And it's like, they're not in a place to really receive that or do that a lot of times. And again, they come across maybe as unwilling or unmotivated, but maybe they're just biologically unavailable. Maybe they're just not really there.
48:47.59
David Durand
So can we prioritize regulation over information, get them into that connection mode, and then both parties are you know winning more? and You got to give a little. That's that's for sure.
48:57.88
Michael Huber
Absolutely. That's a great way to to finish up there. David, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I loved it. It was a great conversation. and and Maybe we'll have a chance to do it again sometime.
49:08.12
David Durand
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was awesome. Always love talking about this stuff.
49:11.37
Michael Huber
Me too.
49:10.92
David Durand
So yeah, thank you. And yeah, stoked to hear from ah people. I would love for them to reach out if they want to talk more about this stuff.
49:18.11
Michael Huber
Fantastic. Thanks, David.