What if pitchers are chasing the wrong thing? In this conversation, I sit down with Scott Shuman, Head Pitching Coach at RPP Baseball, to explore what truly separates throwers from competitors. We discuss why velocity and spin rate don’t guarantee outs, how anxiety shows up when athletes lack a plan, and why developing a consistent mental process is the foundation of long-term success. Scott also shares how his own professional journey — including throwing 100 mph in Double-A — forced him to confront a hard truth: talent without a process creates inconsistency. If you’re a pitcher, baseball parent, or coach navigating today’s data-driven, year-round culture, this episode will challenge you to rethink development from the inside out.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 – Introduction
02:15 – “The job of a pitcher is to get outs”
06:30 – Velocity vs command: what actually matters
10:45 – The turning point in Scott’s professional career
15:30 – Why chasing feelings leads to inconsistency
19:40 – Building a repeatable cue under pressure
24:10 – ADHD, anxiety, and self-awareness on the mound
29:20 – Why pitchers need hobbies outside of baseball
33:45 – The case for multi-sport development
39:30 – Travel ball culture and burnout
44:50 – When should athletes specialize?
48:30 – Why football might be the ideal second sport
53:00 – Scott’s advice for every young pitcher: build your process
🧠 SHOW NOTES
In Episode 89, I sit down with Scott Shuman, Head Pitching Coach at RPP Baseball, to explore a simple but powerful message for pitchers:
Don’t chase feelings. Build your process.
Scott shares how his early success as a hard-throwing prospect eventually exposed a gap in his development — he had velocity, but he didn’t yet have a plan.
That changed when he learned to simplify his approach, attach cues to feelings, and build a repeatable mental process he could rely on when pressure increased.
We discuss:
If you’ve ever watched a pitcher spiral after one bad inning — or wondered why confidence feels fragile in big moments — this episode will give you a practical framework for building something more stable than emotion.
🤝 CONNECT WITH SCOTT SHUMAN
@RPP_Baseball
@ShumanPerformance
💬 CONNECT WITH MICHAEL HUBER
⚾ Spring Training for the Mind
A free mental preparation guide for baseball families who want to build confidence before the pressure shows up.
👉 https://tinyurl.com/HuberSpringTraining
📩 Free mental performance insights for athletes, parents, and coaches:
👉 https://michaelvhuber.com/newsletter
🌐 Website:
👉 https://www.michaelvhuber.com
Michael Huber (00:01.678)
Hey Scott, how's it going? It's great to have you on the podcast.
Scott Shuman (00:05.088)
Hey Michael thanks for having me man, excited to get this thing going.
Michael Huber (00:08.836)
It's my pleasure. So just as a really quick intro, Scott is the new pitching coach at RPP baseball here in New Jersey, where I am. I've done a lot of work with RPP and their players. I wanted to get Scott onto the podcast to talk about his work, his philosophy, his career, and the mental side specifically of pitching. So with that in mind, I was just listening to the podcast you did with Nunzio, who's one of the owners of RPP. And you talked about the point of pitching is to get outs.
which can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but like, can you just expand on that sort of like that idea in terms of like what it looks like to be a pitcher versus executing?
Scott Shuman (00:48.716)
Yeah, and you know, first of all, like I said, thanks for having me on this can be awesome. But, you know, I think we live in a culture where social media kind of can give athletes this false sense of success. So chasing Velo chasing stuff, but then, you know, you get into a showcase or like an intense high school game and, you know, you're throwing balls at the backstop, backstop, you're spiking curve balls and
Michael Huber (00:52.122)
My pleasure.
Scott Shuman (01:18.336)
Again, somewhere along the line, we've lost the reason that we train. But again, it's to get out and your job as a pitcher is to get out and to win ball games. That's it. It's not to look cool on social media or TikTok or YouTube. And obviously, velocity does help and it's cool. And I love when, you know, that an athlete can take that and kind of use that as like, I want to get better at this thing. But, you know, just to keep it simple.
Again, you go watch a major league baseball game, those guys are filling up the zone. They're efficient, they're quick to the plate, they're not messing around. very rarely will you see a guy who comes up there who doesn't have the best command because they're gonna get sent right back down to the minors.
Michael Huber (02:01.936)
Yeah. that actually, so that in terms of maybe this is the place I go, analytics like data, right? Like very important, right? Data points on a track man, velocity, spin rates, all those different stuff that I'm not expert in, but understand enough about is really important, especially in a recruiting process or in a scouting process to play professional baseball. But that alone doesn't guarantee that a guy is going to get guys out. How do you help your pitchers sort of understand
the importance of data versus making it the end goal, you know, in terms of what they're trying to accomplish.
Scott Shuman (02:36.684)
Well, I think it's just reminding them of...
Really, okay, velocity is good to train for, how are we developing mentally? How are we developing our pitch ability, in other words? So kind of attacking the mindset on that, how to attack hitters, which I think is a lost art. That was something I learned very early in my career. I'm kind of an old school, data wasn't really around when I was coming up. And also on top of that, you gotta think,
mechanics are big now. Back when I, you know, I don't want to sound like I'm 65 years old, but like, you know, the only cue I was taught was like, hey, keep your weight back and let it rip. You know, and so that didn't really work for me as far as my career. It helped at times, but I think some kids can get lost in like trying to drill to create this VELO or focusing on certain keys when, like I said,
simplify the game to where your job is throw strikes and get outs. That is it. And then we'll dive more into the mental side on how I coach athletes, but just kind of reminding them what the whole point of playing baseball is.
Michael Huber (03:53.702)
I do you, I mean, I guess I don't know the answer to this question necessarily. How long have you been coaching for?
Scott Shuman (04:02.03)
Well, let's see. My brother was born 27 years ago. 20. I always joke around that I've been coaching him since he came out the womb. But I would probably say right after high school, I would come back. My dad's Hall of Fame high school baseball coach. So the second I went to Auburn, I would come back every Christmas and help with summer or summer camps or Christmas camps. So essentially, since I was 18 years old and I'm 37 now.
So quite a while, but I would say as far as being full-time coaching, I retired about believe three or four years ago. So kind of going all in on that for the last four years.
Michael Huber (04:42.531)
Yeah, no, I asked that question for specific reasons. I was just curious as to see how you've seen that evolution in terms of the way the players think about the game in 2026 versus maybe five years ago or 10 years ago. mean, do you think that that's changing because of things like social media and data and analytics? Or do you think the fundamental issues are still very similar to what it was when you were 18?
Scott Shuman (04:48.226)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (05:10.924)
Yeah, I mean, we just didn't know enough when I was coming up, you know, and again, I'm just thinking back to the mindset of the offseason was just to get bigger and stronger and you're going to show up. you know, I always I joke around my buddy every offseason. He would go, hey, this is going to be the best year yet. And I remember him saying that. And I would think like, yeah, maybe, you know, just from like a like if I'm lucky.
Because I didn't know how to correct myself. I didn't know how to coach myself. It was like, I'm just going to go out there and compete and hope to have success. then, know, 2012, no, 2014 is where I kind of flipped that switch instead of going into the season of having hope. I actually had a plan. And again, just getting rid of all kinds of anxiety and thoughts that I shouldn't be having by just having a plan going into a season where, you know, this is my job.
which is a whole nother ball game if you want to talk about having to get out as you're living your livelihood. know, some of these kids, you know, get panicked by getting out in the JV game. know, imagine like you're trying to put food on the table and your job is to get a runner out with, you know, a runner on first and second. So just kind of learning to evolve as a player. But, and then as a coach, seeing
Michael Huber (06:23.386)
Yeah.
Scott Shuman (06:40.875)
You know, more so when I was coming up, like I said, get bigger in the off season. When I would go into spring training or during the season, they were teaching you how to attack hitters. you know, how to hold runners on. And now I'm seeing what's your spin rate? what's your velocity? Do you have a good, something like a good change up? You know, do you have a lot of negative vert with that? And so it's like, wait a second. I'm hearing stuff, from athletes saying.
I had a tough outing last night, but the stat guy said my spin rate was way better. Dude, you gave up four runs and only got one out. I don't care how good your stuff is. Let's not forget the main reason that you are a pitcher, especially professionally. And I'm talking about some of my pro guys I coach, but I think that's just kind of got lost in the art somewhere. And maybe it is social media. Maybe it's just we're trying to find...
the happy medium between too much data and the old school way of just getting outs or attacking hitters. And I think we're kind of finding our way as far as coaches go and how to blend both of them and which again tracks down to the athletes. Okay, this is what they're looking for because right now most athletes see coaches want velocity and stuff. That's it. Nobody talks about
you know, walk per nine or strike out per nine. Well, I guess I do talk about strike out per nine, but you know, what's your ERA? That's kind of a lost art as well. And we can go down the rabbit hole in that some other time, but like I said, just kind of learning how the culture has changed and what these kids want to see when you do coach them.
Michael Huber (08:24.953)
Yeah. Well, I think what you said in there about your own experience going in 2014, like having a plan, right? Like, and I'd love to hear how that changed for you, but just, think that idea of having a plan, whether they're 12 and I've had kids as young as 11 and 12 years old, we're having a plan about what to do in those anxiety inducing situations, which it's hard to believe that a 12 year old feels anxiety about baseball, but it happens.
Scott Shuman (08:35.873)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (08:52.034)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (08:53.327)
But if they have a plan about how they want to deal with it, things tend to get better. As they get older, the problems get bigger. Having a plan is really important, right? So one of the RPP pitchers that I work with who's now playing Division 1 baseball at a mid-major level, they're going to the SEC this weekend. And we talked about what's it going to be like when you get into that stadium and there's 7,000 people and you've never been in that environment before, you're going to get nervous.
Scott Shuman (09:02.188)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (09:22.285)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (09:22.775)
What's the plan to focus on executing this next pitch? You don't know what's going to happen, but if you have at least some idea of what I'm going to do in that situation, I'm going to do these things. I'm going to have a better chance of success. Right. So having those plans, whether you're a pro, a college guy or a kid, having a plan about what you want to do and then executing on it and knowing how to respond to adversity, just that in and of itself puts you up here.
Scott Shuman (09:51.767)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (09:51.898)
versus I'm lost in that stuff and I can't get out of it. And now it just becomes this massive snowball that's rolling downhill and I can't stop it. So like what changed for you at that point in your career from 14 to 15 where you developed a plan? Like what were some of the things that went into that?
Scott Shuman (10:09.473)
Well, look, I'm just a good old boy from South Georgia and growing up, I just threw the ball hard and I threw it forward. And you know what? I just happened to be 6'3", 220 by the time I hit 19 and that got me all the way up to double A. But when I got to double A, when hitters are a little bit more selective, you know, I'm falling behind counts, I walk in the house, but I'm throwing 100 miles an hour, you know? And so yeah, that's cool. And there was probably under only
I don't know, maybe 40 or 50 guys in the world at the time doing that. I had to make a change. was two years in a row where I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing out there. I go into the season with that. I hope I have a good year. But yeah, when I go out there and I'm throwing 100 miles an hour and people are like, dude, like, what are you doing? I'm just like, I don't know, man. I'm just throwing it. I'm just trying to hit the mitt, you know? But like one night I'm...
three up, three down with three strikeouts. Two nights later, I walked four in a row. And so just dealing with the anxiety of that alone, as a 24 year old, it's like, you have this gift but you don't have to control it. And I said, I'm gonna invest in myself right now as the mental part of baseball. So a buddy of mine reached out and he said, I need you to go see this guy named Don Johnson, who is a mentor and a good friend of mine out in Poway, California.
and he's coached Hall of Famers, All Stars, you name it. And for the first time in my life, I actually learned how to attack the zone with the mental side of pitching, not just be a thrower. And so we talked about process outcomes, having a cue that I can go to. So when it is 2-0 and the bases are loaded, I'm not panicking and hoping it goes in the strike zone. I actually can...
start to understand how I'm feeling and okay, I'm feeling like I'm rushing. Boom, I got a cue that's gonna fix that. Whether it's stay back or maybe feel more on my heel, just having a weapon that I can go onto the mound with. So that way, like I said, I actually know what my planning attack is. I'm on the offense and not the defensive side going into each game. So whether it's an Auburn pitching in front of 17,000 people or maybe you're in high school.
Scott Shuman (12:33.248)
and you still feel that like, I don't know what to do, I get nervous sometimes. I think a lot of that stems from not having a plan or a plan of attack going into that outing and you're just hoping for success.
Michael Huber (12:46.095)
Yeah, so I think the thing that I, the word that you didn't say, but you said in that explanation is aware, self-awareness, right? I'm aware in the moment of what's happening to me, because if I'm aware in the moment of what's happening, I can do something different to change that. If I'm swept up in the emotion or the negative thoughts or the overthinking when I'm trying to get somebody out, it's just going to drag me along. I get, like if I was tied to the back of a car bumper, that's the way I describe it sometimes.
Scott Shuman (12:53.398)
Mm.
Scott Shuman (13:15.692)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (13:15.693)
I'm getting dragged along by the feelings that come with being in that situation and I can't stop it versus I know I'm feeling rushed. I know my heart rate's going up. I know my mind is spinning. What am I going to do? It might just be as simple as stepping off the back of the rubber, taking a deep breath, turning a look and taking your hat off, doing something to reset yourself. Everybody's different, right? You want to have those cues in your bag, right? I heard it described one way with a guy I worked with who pitched in the giant system.
Scott Shuman (13:31.35)
Right.
Michael Huber (13:44.742)
You know, they taught him in the system using the mental performance coaches there to think of his thoughts as sort of a funnel, right? Every single pitch I'm funneling down to that most important thing before I get ready to let go of the ball. it was for him, was flush the last pitch, take a deep breath, tell myself I'm going to attack count regardless of count, right? Two, I still want to attack. Three, I still want to attack. I want to attack two.
Now that last cue that I'm giving myself is I'm going to be an attacking mindset. Now I'm going to go. Now I'm taking that and I'm doing it all the time. I'm doing it in a catch play. I'm doing it in flat ground. I'm doing it in my bullpens and I'm doing it in the games. Why? Because I'm getting those reps. Now I understand that I want to get myself into that attacking mindset before I let go of the next pitch. Now you want to be able to deviate from that in certain situations, but having that plan and a process to execute in those moments when you're overwhelmed.
is important, right? And it sounds like at that point in your career, that's exactly what you learned how to do. like, what were some of the elements of that? Like, can you kind of just get in a little bit deeper in terms of what you worked on?
Scott Shuman (14:53.516)
Well, just to not get too big on the mechanics, again, that was 10 years ago almost. Wow, it's incredible. And I use this as my coaching philosophy today, attaching words to feelings. So when I'm working with an athlete, I'll be like, okay, did that feel a little bit better? Yeah, it felt easier to throw. And I go, okay, let's attach one or two words that can kind of get you back into that feeling.
Okay, so now we're giving the brain a job because a lot of kids, whether you have ADHD or maybe you have trade anxiety, which I have ADHD. So, you know, a lot of times my brain is kind of all over the place. You're giving the brain a job instead of allowing it to default mode into, you know, looking in the stands or allowing those negative thoughts to come in and play when you're supposed, again, your job is to be getting out right now. So what we're doing is we're attaching, attacking.
that default mode with a job. So that process could be, like I said, a simple cue of like sitting more in the back heel or maybe just like holding the glove out. Like one cue that you can go to war with no matter what. So your brain knows exactly what it's supposed to do and then as you continue to play catch, like you said, you're in practice, you're throwing bullpens, you're working with me or another coach, you're building that muscle memory. So when you are in those big situations, you're not panning.
as much at least. know, obviously you're going to have adrenaline, but just knowing that you have a process or a plan of attack, then you can't go wrong.
Michael Huber (16:18.97)
Yeah.
Michael Huber (16:26.063)
gives you sense of control. And the simplicity is really important. I agree with that. And that's the way I coach my baseball players is find that one thing, right? Let's focus on that one thing that works for you. And there's exploration in that. And it sounds like you went through that process as well. like not the cue that someone gives you or you give to yourself may not work for somebody, may not work for somebody else. And maybe this is something that sort of is a good segue, right? Like, cause I think one of the things that I
Scott Shuman (16:45.654)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (16:53.957)
Fine. I'm not a baseball. I'm a baseball guy, but I'm not a baseball coach, right? I don't coach baseball the way you do but my sense is from the work that I've done with a lot of baseball players is They they don't know how to figure it out for themselves It's like unless they're told what to do and say you go do this They're not sure what to do versus learning how to coach themselves through it. Maybe I'll just sort of reiterate what you said so like
Scott Shuman (16:57.708)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (17:21.625)
I mean, is that your experience where like a lot of young players, maybe like the high school level or like looking for you to tell them what to do versus challenging them to sort of think about those things that maybe they don't even know yet to learn and build that awareness so that they could figure it out for themselves?
Scott Shuman (17:39.23)
Yeah, and again, you know, I'll start off with a kid. Let's say he has a great arm and he'll just start launching. I'll just watch the first three or four fastballs and he'll just launch them as hard as he can. And I'm like, how does that feel? I feel great. Well, you just threw you just spiked two fastballs and you hit the backstop. OK, like I see a lot of good things. You're obviously a good athlete, but let's, you know, try to hit that low and outside fastball real quick.
And let's just say he yanks it little bit. And I go, okay, what'd you feel? I feel like I kind of pushed it a little bit. Okay, why did you push it? I don't know, I was trying to throw strikes. okay, so you were focused on the outcome and not the equation.
and this is where I kind of try to simplify it a little bit. I said your job as a pitcher is not to focus on the answer. I want you to focus on the equation. So if you do, let's say again, the kid has a poor glove and I just say, hey, I want you to take your glove out and up and that's the only thing I want you to focus on. Okay, so now I'm changing the way the kid thinks from again, the outcome, which is we want to strike, but we're building muscle memory and confidence into focusing on the equation, which is one plus one equals a strike. His one plus one is glove out and up.
So if we can get consistent and build mental confidence in that, that every time he does that, he starts to get a little bit closer to the plate. His arm starts to feel better. It feels easier to throw harder. Then all of a sudden, now we're getting dopamine hits off of that, which is easy to remember. Your brain's like, this is awesome. So when I get nervous or pressure and I say, even in the bullpen session, I'm like, hey, three, two count, bases loaded, two outs. I need a low and outside fast ball. What are you thinking? glove out and up.
Michael Huber (19:20.367)
Just go, just do that because it's in your control.
Scott Shuman (19:23.443)
Right, exactly. And so that's why a lot of people do constraint training and they're big on that, which I think there's a time and place. But when you're in front of 20,000 people or you're pitching in front of thousand people at a state championship high school baseball game in Texas or something, you're gonna need that in your back pocket just to kind of keep a playing field in your brain so it's just not going all over the place searching for answers.
Michael Huber (19:49.498)
Yeah, exactly. And that's where that practice that you're describing needs to be consistent. Because it's a conversation I have all the time with athletes is like, hey, we're going to come up with the equation, I'll use your word, right? But we've got to practice that equation, right? Consistently over time so that it takes hold and that you don't have to think about it when you're under pressure, right? You're getting those reps, just like you're trying to build a physical skill.
Scott Shuman (19:56.245)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (20:05.846)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (20:18.629)
That equation needs to also be practiced the same way so that when you're in front of a thousand people in a state championship game, which maybe that's not as many eyeballs, but it's damn well really meaningful in that moment, your brain's going to start to tell you, Hey, don't mess this up. No, I know what I need to do. I need to get my glove out and up. Like it's the same as if I were in the pen in the tunnel, whatever. And now I go to that and I put all my emphasis on just executing that knowing that
Scott Shuman (20:29.588)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (20:46.905)
Maybe I don't get the result I want every single time, but the odds go way up. That's the way I describe it. And that's the way I talk to kids about data, right? Like the reason why we measure velocity and exit velocity and throwing velocity is because if you're able to do that on a consistent basis, the odds generally go up that you're to be able to get more hits or more people out, but it doesn't guarantee anything, right? So same with the mental side. If you do that same thing all the time and you execute what you want to do mentally, process-wise, approach-wise,
Yeah, you're not going to get the result you want every single time, but you can feel good that if you keep doing it long term, the results are going to be much better. Getting them to buy into that in the beginning is the hardest part. Sometimes it takes getting to a place where they're so down and out, they're in the ditch that they're willing to try anything. And that's my life. People get into the ditch and they go, okay, now I need help. Can you help me now versus, hey, let's work on this before we get into the ditch. That's just human nature. But I wish it was more like, let's do it before you get there.
Hey, now I'm motivated because I don't know what else to do.
Scott Shuman (21:49.388)
Yeah, I mean, like I said, it took me literally having two of the worst years of my life, statistically, say, hey, you know what, I'm going to fly out to California and spend, you know, whatever it takes to kind of finally figure it out. And then all of a sudden, you know, if you look at my stats from 14 on, they're a totally different ballplayer, you know, and it really took for me to hitting rock bottom and saying enough is enough. So again, I like what you said, just starting that plan of attack from
Michael Huber (22:01.123)
Yes.
Scott Shuman (22:19.477)
you know, 14, 15, maybe 12 years old. And then that way you're kind of growing up with that as you continue to develop.
Michael Huber (22:26.947)
Yeah. So I guess the question I'm curious about now, I hadn't really thought about is, had you been exposed to sports psychology at some point before that and you said, no, it's not for me. don't need it.
Scott Shuman (22:39.175)
Never, not one time. Like I said, I'm a lifelong member of ADHD over here. And I would go to a therapist for school because I wasn't focusing enough or anything like that. But nobody ever really talked to me about the mental side of sports, whether it was, I grew up playing football, baseball, and basketball. And again, I'm from a small town, so that never really bothered me because the stage wasn't that big.
You know, so I didn't really have to think about it. But then all of sudden you walk on campus at Auburn University and you're playing in front of 10, 15,000 people, you know, at Mississippi State or Florida or something like that, you know, and you're like, oh, wait a second, this is new. And so, like I said, from 18 to 24, I was just kind of like, all right, I'm just going to do what it got me here and that's throw it hard and throw it forward. And it got me to, you know, it got me to double A.
Michael Huber (23:20.058)
Yeah.
Scott Shuman (23:36.491)
but I had to throw 100 to get there. like, you know, for somebody who's throwing 90, like that's probably just not gonna cut it.
Michael Huber (23:43.514)
Yeah. So I'm going to ask you about ADHD because I work with a lot of athletes now who are diagnosed with ADHD, right? That's like one of the first things I learn about them in my assessment process is, yo, they're treated for ADHD or they're diagnosed or whatever. And something you said before we started recording was like, you know, about the empathy, right? Being able to put yourself into someone else's shoes and like coach through that lens. So having the experience of being an athlete who is
has ADHD, like does that influence your coaching and like how do you sort of like, how do you use that experience with kids who might be in the same position when you're coaching them? What are some of the things you do?
Scott Shuman (24:23.868)
Well, to begin with, not everybody I coach has a problem focusing or having these anxiety. And I coach them a little bit different. honestly do less with the mental side. And I kind of just give them more constrained approach. And they go out there and it don't matter if they're throwing underhand, they're going to throw strikes. And then when I kind of get the idea, whether a parent tells me or the kid tells me that they have ADHD,
Or maybe I just feel like they're asking a lot of questions and they're kind of off the wall a little bit. That's where I can kind of understand, okay, I've been here. I know what you're feeling. That's where like, honestly, I have more, I get excited for those kids because I've already been there and I know how awful it must feel.
when you're sitting at home and you're wondering like why the success isn't coming and why do I feel dreadful throwing a baseball when I grew up and this was never a problem and all of sudden I get to the college or I get to the high school level and I'm like, wait a second, this isn't fun anymore. And so just allowing me to coach them through the lens of what I've already gone through and knowing that on the other side of this, once you learn to control this,
Baseball is incredible and it is so fun to compete.
You know, and just kind of reminding them that and watching them, you know, smile when they kind of figure it out or something. That's probably the best part. Or texting me after a game like, dude, I had a bunch of scouts watch me and I took a deep breath and I just focused on our cue that we always had and I absolutely dominated. You know, and sending that text saying I appreciate it. Like that's what it's all about, you know, because I didn't have anybody to give me that until later in my career. And so just that feeling of like confidence that I'm sure they got, especially at a young age, just like just all.
Michael Huber (26:03.269)
Cheers.
Scott Shuman (26:13.119)
feel.
Michael Huber (26:13.935)
Yeah, and this is not to be self-serving, but just to sort of relate to what you said. I'm older than you by 10 plus years, and I played baseball when I was young. And I was good at it, but I was never great. And there's never what you were. But I loved it, and I was good enough to be competitive and have a role in high school and all those things. Then I started playing again in my adult years, in adult leagues, but against really good players. And I learned what it was like to fail again, but I also enjoyed competing.
Like I just went out in the field and competed. And I think to myself, like, would think to myself, like, well, if there was somebody that could have helped me 30 years ago, like I would have wanted that. I want to be that person. So that's pretty much what you said, right? Like I can help these kids, give them, I can give them the thing that I didn't have and watch them succeed by having these tools and learn what it's like to be able to manage yourself in those important situations, but also have fun to compete.
and know that it's not the end of the world, right? There's an opportunity to get better from failure and that someone's there by your side saying, hey, you know what? You had a bad day. I get it, but let's take what you learned and go forward. Like having those people in their lives, I think is really critical. That's what allows people to keep going, right? Like you, you found that resource that really helped you. And then you, kept going for, you know, a number of more years, which is wonderful.
Scott Shuman (27:39.986)
Yeah, one of the things that I make a main point to, whether it's a high school kid, a college or one of my pro guys, is when I feel like they care too much. And that's not a problem. But when it becomes an idol, that's when one outing can spiral into like a horrible season. I make sure every one of my clients, when they sign up, I make sure that they have
a hobby that they like. I'm like, hey, what do you like to do outside of baseball or pitching? And they go, well, I like to read. I'm like, well, that's awesome. You know, I want you to spend whenever you're not on training or whatever, I don't want you to go on TikTok. I don't want you to go on YouTube and watch delivery drills. I want you to go to a coffee shop. I want you to just dive in and be invested in a book or, you know, whatever that is and just go all in on it. Okay. Because I go, guess what?
your career is going to end whether you like it or not, whether it's tomorrow or 10 years from now. Okay, so I want you to be passionate about other things. So at least you don't feel like you don't have anything going for you. And that way when you do have a bad outing, your whole world doesn't collapse because guess what? The sun's going to come up the next day and you know, maybe you like to play tennis or pickleball. Let's say you have a bad outing on a Friday night, wake up Saturday and go play pickleball with your dad.
You know, like kind of get your mind away from the game. And one thing I can say without a doubt, are a number of new or numerous amounts of children. And I say children 12 to 18 who are obsessed with baseball and play year round. And so when they have a tough tournament, there's tears, they're flooding with like negative emotions. I stink, whatever. And like I said, it's good to care.
Michael Huber (29:31.482)
Yes.
Scott Shuman (29:31.572)
but that's all they care about. At the end of the day, it's a game and I think we've lost that a little bit, especially in the youth with travel law and whatnot.
Michael Huber (29:40.314)
Yeah, I mean, and I don't want to go down the stroke because we could talk all day about like, and also why do you care so much? Right? Do you get this is something that I learned as a dad, I have two children and I coach my dad, my son playing baseball, he stopped and he's going on to college next year, whatever. But it was I learned as I was coaching kids, youngers, like if they want to win, because they want to win, that's different than they should want to win because I want them to win. Right? That's right. Like, why do you care?
Scott Shuman (29:44.468)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (30:06.346)
Hmm.
Michael Huber (30:08.869)
Do you care so much because like, you know, I love baseball so much that it means the world to me, or do I care so much because of what's gonna be said by my coach or my parent or the way it's gonna look on social media or I go to school the next day or whatever, right? So like understanding the reasons why, why do I play this game? If I love it so much, yeah, okay, I get it. But you're right, having some other hobby or outlet, not allowing that sport to be your identity is another way I would talk about it, right?
Because if your identity is only connected to your performance, as soon as you don't perform well, you're going to be like, I'm a bad person. You know what I'm saying? Like, what's wrong with me? And when I think what's wrong with me, now all of a sudden those feelings are really, really negative. That's not going to bode well for the next time you pick up a baseball and go, well, what's wrong with me? I have to go throw strikes now to feel like a good person. Because that's not true. You are a good person. You had a bad day. And that's different. And that's hard.
Scott Shuman (30:46.653)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (31:00.915)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (31:05.949)
But having people who inject that message and help them think about it that way, even if those seeds don't grow right away, is really, really, really important.
Scott Shuman (31:14.567)
Yep, absolutely.
Michael Huber (31:15.877)
So I want to talk about something you mentioned in the podcast also with Nunzio that I was listening to about being a multi-sport athlete because that was my experience. I played three sports. I loved it. It seems like it's happening less and less. And I don't have a strong opinion about that necessarily. I'm not expert in it, but like, can you talk about like maybe what that means for some of your baseball athletes, the ones who are multi-sport versus the ones who aren't?
Scott Shuman (31:42.033)
Yeah, so without a doubt, I can immediately just watch an athlete move nine times out of 10, just on pure athleticism. I'm talking to the younger kids, 12 to 18, who's played multiple sports growing up or is currently playing multiple sports and who and who doesn't. Like I said on the recent podcast with nuns, those kids just can't get into the positions at an early age that the other more athletic kids can get into. And so
learning to develop those movement patterns outside of playing pitching year round is so crucial to your development. again, I preach this to all my parents all the time. You need to step away from baseball, not only from a physical standpoint and just learn to compete, whether it's football, soccer or something else, but also the mental side of baseball.
I think I read a stat somewhere that youth baseball is dropping like drastically. Kids are quitting by age 15 because they're just over it. I mean, I saw somewhere where you, again, this is a whole nother conversation, but like they're having travel baseball for T-ball. You know, and this is a year round sport. And I'm like.
When the spring hits, when February hits, I remember getting so excited like, it's baseball season. But imagine you're nine years old and like all you do is the same thing over and I'm going to the tournament. I got to sit in the car for four hours. Then I'm gonna play five games. you know, if you go watch a baseball game, you don't really do that much. You know, like, so that's why it's important to kind of step away not only from a physical standpoint, whether, and again, you don't have to play other sports.
go get into a good strength and conditioning program here at RPP. Go play basketball, go run track, get faster, get bigger. But just playing year round, you're doing yourself a disservice.
Michael Huber (33:35.843)
Yeah. Yeah. And you're also potentially leading to more of the likelihood of overuse injury going up, right?
Scott Shuman (33:43.401)
Right, and we haven't even really touched on that. Like I said, that's a whole other topic, but you know, people wonder why all these arm injuries are happening, especially in the major leagues. Well, they're all happening at 22, 23, the guys that get drafted. Well, I wonder why, because they've been a pitcher since they were 16 years old, and so by the time they get to a workload of professional athlete, their arm's shot. I didn't have surgery, my first surgery was what, ended my career at 35 years old. And I didn't...
Michael Huber (34:11.319)
That's a pretty good run.
Scott Shuman (34:13.354)
And again, I try to tell people this. I'm like, I am literally a sample study. I barely pitched in high school growing up or even in, you know, boys club. I played three sports. We played baseball when it was baseball and then other sports in their season. And then I went to college and played pro ball. So why in the world did I never have arm problems until I was a 35 year old man, which by then I'm kind of run down by, you know, but.
Michael Huber (34:27.865)
Mm-hmm. That's awesome.
Scott Shuman (34:41.947)
So again, now I'm, you know, kids come in like, my arms hurt because I played a travel or after this travel all weekend where I played six games in two days. Like a grown man doesn't even do that, but we're expecting a 12 year old child to do that. You know, again, not to mention the mental aspects of that, that's your court, your cortisol levels are elevated for almost two straight days. What's that? What's that doing to a child's brain? You know, and we don't talk about that. And maybe that's why the
anxiety levels are jumping so much. You know, I'm not a scientist, but I just know that if I had to compete for that long, I'd probably be cashed mentally too.
Michael Huber (35:14.403)
Yeah.
Michael Huber (35:20.131)
Well, and what you just said is complete common sense. So don't think you need to be a scientist at, but like practically speaking, and I have this conversation with my baseball guys who play summer baseball. Like there's not, there's not the competitive element in travel ball, right? It's not like you're with your guys, right? Your high school guys where you're competing and trying to win a state championship, right? Or you're excited to be with your friends. Like a lot of times you're playing with strangers.
Scott Shuman (35:39.293)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (35:46.566)
Right? You're on playing with a kid I don't know and we're to go sit out there and play two games in the 95 degree heat on the turf. And it's like, I'm just going through the motions. And so, yeah, maybe there's a stress level, but if it was competitive in the sense that we're trying to win, like travel, ball guys are like, I don't even care if I win. I mean, if we win, it's great, but I just want to go out and like produce because I'm getting recruited. Well, you get at this high stress level. I got to produce for this reason, but we're not actually trying to win a game. So there's really no like other benefit that comes with it.
So it's just like a, it's a job, you know, put it another way. So that's where some of the things that you're talking about, whether a pitcher or hitter, I talk a lot about with guys is like, you're going into summer ball, you got to have a process. You got to learn to breathe. You got to learn to reset, right? You got to learn to like, be like, Hey, I'm going to let go of that over three and be able to focus on the things I can control. Put a smile on my face. I get to play baseball because there's going to be a lot of stress in that process. And it's not going to be maybe a lot of fun or camaraderie or as much as you would normally get.
Scott Shuman (36:17.341)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (36:43.897)
How do I manage that? If I know I'm going into it and I know it's going to be stressful, what's my plan so that I have a plan and I'm able to regulate in those situations? Without that plan, you're going to get swallowed up by it. And I think that's the part we're missing. And I'm learning more about that as a mental performance coach, like that travel ball circuit or just recruiting in any sport. Soccer, my daughter's a soccer player. You have to learn to manage that and put it in perspective. Otherwise, it's going to eat you alive. And you can't let that happen.
Scott Shuman (37:12.521)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, part of being as you know, I'm a certified strength addition coach. Part of knowing that information is also the off season. And if you look at the literature on that, it literally says take zero to four weeks of taking time away from your sport, doing things that you love to do. And it's not a it's not only a reset for your body, but also your brain and your mind, you know.
just kind of getting back to neutral where you've had elevated hormones and adrenaline for however long your season was and then taking a step back just kind of get to a baseline.
Michael Huber (37:50.959)
Yeah, and I think that's hard. It's hard in the world we live in. think people feel like they're missing out on something. Right? Like they're...
Scott Shuman (37:56.937)
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, I get questions all the time. Should my kid go play in this tournament in January? Like your kid's 13. He's gonna be a different human being in three years. Nobody is gonna be looking at him at 13 years old. I promise you he's gonna be fine. He's playing basketball right now. Keep doing that. Enjoy it. Let him have fun. Okay? And again, colleges can't even talk to kids until they're a junior now, which I think is a great rule. You know, so...
Michael Huber (38:24.195)
Yeah, it was a great rule. I agree.
Scott Shuman (38:27.336)
Just understanding that follow the process. This is not just about development for the physical attributes, but more so here. And allow the kid to be a kid, you know? Go out and build tree houses, play tag with your, you know what I'm saying? Like.
Michael Huber (38:44.901)
Whoa, now I think you're sort of dating yourself. I think those are great ideas because like, man, those are things that we did as well. I, and sadly, I, I mean, maybe it comes back around, but I just don't think anybody feels comfortable in this environment. Like that, that it almost feels frivolous, which it should, cause you're a kid. But like, think everybody looks at it and goes, no, that's a waste of time. I shouldn't be doing that, which is just not cool. But playing another sport.
Scott Shuman (38:49.393)
Yeah.
Scott Shuman (39:03.932)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (39:08.231)
Right.
Michael Huber (39:11.225)
think is a great idea. My daughter plays flag football and she's like, I can't wait for flag football. Why? Because it's fun and there's no pressure and I don't care and I'm with my girls and we're good. Like you need more of that, right in your life to sort of just broaden your horizons and have fun and take time off. And I think that that's that is really, really important stuff. Go ahead.
Scott Shuman (39:15.858)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (39:23.388)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (39:32.144)
I want to comment, and this is more so to the parents, and again, I'm not trying to tell you I have a parent. I don't have kids of my own, but I do have a nephew and a niece, but you obviously wouldn't let your children do drugs and alcohol, obviously, right? Or talk back to an adult. But when they say, I don't want to play this sport. I want to play baseball.
Michael Huber (39:36.314)
Go ahead.
Scott Shuman (39:56.251)
Like you as a parent, you need to lay the law down like no baseball season is over. You're going to go play basketball and I've seen it with my own nephew who's nine years old. He's like all I want to do is play baseball and my brother-in-law says, nope, it's football season. And as soon as he puts the pads on, he's like, I love football. You know, so just having the discipline to, know it's going to be hard to say, sorry, we can't play this sport year round. You're going to play something else. Knowing that.
Michael Huber (40:13.508)
He's good.
Scott Shuman (40:24.537)
you're protecting them mentally, but also you're kind of helping them from a physical attribute to get more athletic too. So that's just my one advice I always give parents to kind of lay the law down and don't give in to, you know, letting them play a certain sport year round.
Michael Huber (40:38.905)
think it's a great point and it's an important point and people are always going to do what they want to do with that kind of, you know, advice. I guess the follow on question to that is, and maybe you don't have an answer, but like, do you think there's an age where a kid says, Hey, I want to start specializing. And it's, even if it makes you uncomfortable as a parent, you go, okay, it's your choice now and it's okay.
Scott Shuman (40:43.077)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (41:03.176)
I think there's two answers to that possibly just from what I've seen. Again, I played three sports till I was a senior in high school. My brother played two sports till he was a senior in high school. One, you let the sport tell you. Okay, as in which sport are we gonna be playing when I hit 16, 17? I'm a sophomore, know, let the sport tell you which one you probably need to lean more into.
Number two is
Again, it's different for everybody, but the maturation phase of each child, some mature faster than others. I feel like as a parent, you can gauge that to where, all right, my kid's getting acne. Some things I can tell he's starting to fill out a little bit. maybe we need to start moving away from this sport because he barely plays anyways, and it's always a struggle to get him out there, and he's 15, 16 years old. But if he's 10, 11, 12 years old,
like force them to get out there and just go out and learn to compete if anything.
Michael Huber (42:11.045)
Yes. Well, I like both points. I think they're great. And I generally agree. I love let the sport tell you as sort of a as a motto. I had never really heard someone say that before, but it makes a of sense. Like, hey, the sport's going to dictate to you like, hey, this is where your talents are. But that's probably not going to happen until you're 15, 16, 17 years old versus, we're going to we're going to we're going to will that to be when they're 10 and 11. There's not enough time to make that judgment. Right.
Scott Shuman (42:20.509)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (42:38.791)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Huber (42:40.609)
One more question before we wrap up, because I don't want to take too much of your time and we've been talking for a while now. But this is a very self-serving question because I have an opinion on it personally. What do you think about football specifically as that second sport?
Scott Shuman (42:56.792)
I think without a doubt in my mind, because again, I'm from South Georgia. I'm from Titletown, USA. Titletown, USA. Go look it up. learning, I think football helps more than just obviously tackling and throwing and catching. It treats you how to be physical, how to be disciplined, how to learn and control emotions.
Michael Huber (43:03.129)
Hahaha!
Scott Shuman (43:24.068)
Okay, because you're going, you're hitting people, you're running and all kinds of stuff. If I had to choose a second sport without a doubt in my mind, I would choose football nine times out of 10.
Michael Huber (43:34.542)
Okay, so we are of exactly the same mindset, right? Because in high school, I was a very good baseball player and I was a good football player. I was a captain, I played three years in varsity, but I wasn't great at football. But when I look back at high school, the number one thing I think about is football because of the unique experience, the relationships. There's nothing like putting on a helmet and going running out with a bunch of guys.
I love baseball. I love my baseball teammates. A lot of them are my football teammates. But there was just something different about football and all the physicality element of it. Like that lesson. And the thing about football that's wonderful is there is only truly one football season. That's it. You play football for three or four months and that's it. So it makes it special. It makes it unique. It's different in so many ways. If you do that and you play another sport that's not in that season, I feel like
Scott Shuman (44:17.818)
Right.
Michael Huber (44:30.447)
There's so much to be gained from it. Now we can get it. could get into head injuries and all sorts of other stuff. And there's obviously there's risks with playing football and some people don't like it. And I get it. But just from that team aspect and the physicality that you don't usually get in other places, I just feel like football is such a great thing to be able to do as a second sport because of the unique attributes.
Scott Shuman (44:52.645)
And I'll say this to all my pitchers out here listening. I threw 100, my brothers 95, 97, every athlete that I ever played with or every pitcher I played with in pro ball, they all played quarterback. That's it. I've never seen a quarterback that played, that was a pitcher as well that didn't throw hard. So if you're looking to gain velocity and you've never played football before, go be the third string quarterback every day and just get your throwing in.
Like, that's the easiest way to gain velocity as a young athlete.
Michael Huber (45:24.633)
I'm going to ask a stupid question, but I genuinely am curious and I don't know the answer. So what is it about throwing a football, which is obviously a little bit different than throwing a baseball that you think, what element of that sort of leads to that arm strength? And maybe it was part of your durability as a player. Like, what do you think is it about throwing a football that really helps?
Scott Shuman (45:47.311)
Well, again, we could dive into the biomechanics of throwing a football. One, it's a heavy ball.
Right, so the bigger muscles are going to be doing most of the work. It's very safe on your arm. Two, the release point's different than a baseball. I believe you release it later than a baseball. So again, almost like a tennis racket, same thing, holding on. So it's a little bit safer throwing motion. But again, learning to throw, if anybody's watched any type of football ever, the quarterback's not doing the same throwing motion all the time. He's throwing on the run. He's doing jump throws.
And again, teaching yourself to be a better athlete and throw from certain angles where your brain can kind of build those proprioception metrics in your body. So when it is time to pick up a baseball, you're not worried like, I didn't get in my release height, you know, so that's why I didn't throw strikes. Like, again, that's where you kind of build into just being more of an athlete overall as a pitcher too.
Michael Huber (46:46.949)
Yeah. And I'm not going to make us go down this point, but I think the information processing as a quarterback is extremely valuable. like the ability to just shift your attention from, Hey, I got to get the play call. got to exit. I got to call it. I got to go to the line of scrimmage. got to scan pre-snap. Now I got to make decisions post-snap. Like all that processing is going to come in very handy when you're struggling, you know, in another context, because it's like, I can do this.
that's someone's about to rip my head off and I gotta make all these choices. So I'm a big believer in that as well. as we wrap up, the last question I always ask my guests, and sometimes it could be a hard one is like, if there's just one piece of advice and maybe you've already said it, but just to reiterate, one piece of advice you'd give to pitchers, right? Let's stick to the primary demographic here. One piece of advice you'd give to young pitchers, what would that piece of advice be?
Scott Shuman (47:17.329)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Shuman (47:46.843)
Don't chase feelings. Build your process because even on. You can go watch baseball. Major League Baseball game any day of the week. Not every pitcher is going to have their best stuff and they're not going to feel good. But when they have their process that keeps them from having those big downfalls and kind of keeps him closer to that consistency window as their season progresses. So having that process and not hope.
hope I do well, know, feelings come and go, but again you got your ammo in your back pocket that you can take that to the mound and if you do that you're more than likely gonna have a pretty good season.
Michael Huber (48:30.895)
Great way to end. Scott, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. It was really, really great to talk to you. Hopefully we can do it again, because my guess is like we probably got another hour in us somewhere.
Scott Shuman (48:40.631)
Absolutely, I appreciate you having me on man. Have a good one.
Michael Huber (48:42.502)
All right, thank you. You too.