In this episode, Mike sits down with sports nutritionist Nick Lemke to debunk some of the most common nutrition myths young athletes face. Nick is passionate about making high-performance nutrition simple, doable, and effective for student-athletes and their families.
In this episode, Nick breaks down:
Why carbs aren’t the enemy.
How to simplify fueling without obsessing over calories, and what role parents play in the process.
How to get buy-in from athletes who are picky eaters or resistant to change.
Why breakfast might be the most important decision an athlete makes all day.
🔗 Connect with Nick Lemke
https://clutchperformancenutrition.fit/linktree
https://www.instagram.com/nicklemkerd
🔗 Connect with Mike
https://michaelvhuber.com
https://www.instagram.com/michaelvhuber.com
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Michael Huber (00:01.536)
Hey Nick, how are ya?
Nick (00:03.682)
Good, good, how are you?
Michael Huber (00:05.384)
I'm doing great. It's great to have you on the podcast. I was on your podcast not too long ago, so I'm happy to be the one asking the questions as opposed to being the one in the hot seat. So we'll sort of kick it off real hot. What would you say is your hottest nutrition take or your most controversial take that you're comfortable sharing?
Nick (00:27.244)
Yeah, so my biggest controversial take is really just that most athletes nowadays are overdoing the protein and not doing enough of the carbs. Not all of the athletes, you I want to preface that it's not everybody, but there are a lot of athletes right now who are obsessing over protein and neglecting carbs. So they...
You know, they want to build muscle, but they're not even eating enough because they're just cranking all this protein. You know, if, you eat too much protein, you feel full faster. Um, I've had athletes where they're say 170 pounds and they're consuming 225, 250 grams of protein a day. And I'm like, that's even more than the upper end of the range. And so it's, it's, it's something where it's like, if you want to build muscle, yeah, you, yes, you need protein, but you also need the rest of the system. You know, um, one, one example.
of this or one kind of way to put this into picture is you think about a basketball team and you have five starters. Protein is just one of those five starters. It might have different special roles that the other things can't do, but the other, you still gotta have the rest of the team to make sure that you're checking the boxes so that you can build muscle, you can maintain, and essentially be the best athlete you can be.
Michael Huber (01:37.794)
Okay, so where do you think those beliefs are coming from? Right? And that's not necessarily a bad take in general, but it's not a great take for a young athlete. That's my interpretation.
Nick (01:51.032)
Yeah, one, it's something where in society in general, we're obsessed with protein right now. Like it's just like everything's protein. It's like, okay, you have a concussion, eat more protein. You have an injury, eat more protein. You are sick, eat more protein. Like every solution has been eating more protein. And it's like, you know, and I see it in the hospital setting. I see it in all settings. And so I think it's just become this big emphasis because we think, okay, protein equals muscle. It's like, yes, protein equals muscle if you are eating enough carbs.
so that the protein can do its job, that making sure that you're getting the sleep in, because if you're not sleeping well, yeah, you're not gonna build a muscle, you're not gonna recover as well. So, you know, allow protein to do its job so that, or by using the other things to do its job. know, allow carbs to give you energy, not protein. If you're not getting enough carbs in, you're gonna use protein for energy, and that's not an efficient system.
that's gonna make you feel sluggish, that's not gonna allow you to get the most out of your workouts. so, yeah, I think it's just a lot of what is being spread by everybody. mean, healthcare professionals, coaches, parents, know, society at large, it's like...
We're demonizing carbs because of the carbs that our athletes are eating most often are, you know, chips, candy, all of that, which is valid. We don't want to be having those a lot, but at the same time, we can go for better carbs. There's, there's plenty of good carbs out there that actually will help performance and athletes need a significantly more, carbs than, than the average person. And so that's where, you know, whole grains, fruits, potatoes, sweet potatoes, all those
things have a role. We just got to focus more on those and less on the carbs that are being demonized, which is more the junk food type of thing. But we tend to classify it in this one big category when really it's like, actually, like, there's a lot of good stuff over here.
Michael Huber (03:51.328)
Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's, you know, that, that the way you described it, like in a very like practical and a very like plain English sort of way is really helpful. Right. Because I think there's just so many wonky and like really like, you know, nutrition takes like it could be really overly scientific. Right. Like, and it's the same in sports psychology, right? People are out there talking about all these different like techniques and the science and the research behind it, which is all important.
But we don't necessarily need to communicate all of that to our clients, right? What we need to do is to communicate, hey, if you do this, this is going to be the transformation, right? So like, can you talk about that? Obviously it's different for everybody, right? So don't want to like oversimplify it, but like, once you get an athlete to buy into that idea of, hey, you can eat more carbs if you eat the good ones, you don't have to eat as much protein, like,
what's the desired outcome or what like what's the pitch to them like if you do this this will help you do what
Nick (04:56.076)
Yeah, so I mean it's really focusing on the performance. I think the mistake that a lot of parents make is they focus on the health piece or they focus on, know, this thing causes cancer, this thing causes this. It's like kids don't care. Like some kids I cared because I had a dad who had cancer in high school. Like I cared, but like.
Most athletes are not going to care about that. You have to focus on what the athlete cares about. So if they want to build muscle, let's give them the things that will help them build muscle in an effective way. So if we help them eat more of the right types of carbs and they start building muscle, that increases their buy-in. And they're like, wow, nutrition is a thing. It can help me. And then once you get that buy-in on just the foundation of protein, carbs, getting the right types of, focusing on the macros basically.
Then you build more as you build that trust with them Then you get into the more complex things a lot of parents want their kids to eat more fruits and vegetables Let's start with the things that will give them the most results first Which is you know the macros and stuff they're gonna see and feel those results Then we take it to the next level and we address the the fruits and the veg and those things and talk about hey like if you Don't want to be sore as much if you don't want to be injured as much like hey, let's use these foods
to help you bounce back faster. And so you start with the thing that they want. So most of my athletes, they want to get either bigger, stronger, faster. They want to get leaner, stronger, faster, like maybe cut a little bit.
let's focus on the things that will accomplish those goals for them. And then we can talk about that, because most of them are like not coming to me and saying, oh, I just don't want to be injured as much, or I don't want to like get injured even though they've never been injured. Like none of them come to me for that. And so that's where focus on what they want and then give them what they need.
Michael Huber (06:48.694)
Yeah, right. So you're getting them to buy in based on helping them do the thing that they want to do because they're motivated to do it. And then the knock on effect is, Hey, once I got you in the door and I got you bought in, now we could start to address some of the higher hanging fruit, right? The things that maybe are nice to haves, but are not need to haves. So that's great, right? So you're really talking about motivation in a lot of ways, right? And that's something when I think about nutrition as a mental performance coach,
I think about it from the perspective of is why am I going to eat this thing that maybe I don't want to eat or maybe I would prefer to eat something else? Like what's it going to do for me? So it sounds like you're really teaching the athletes to connect the behavior eating this way to getting the performance, which gets the buy in. And then we get all this other good stuff that comes with it after the fact, but we got to get them in the door first. Is that a fair characterization of the work that you're doing?
Nick (07:46.558)
Exactly, yeah. So yeah, you have the action that will get them the result that they want. Yeah.
Michael Huber (07:51.936)
Yeah. So like, are some of the biggest challenges you face in getting athletes to buy into what you're asking them to do?
Nick (08:01.068)
Yeah, so I would say for some of them, I would say the picky eating can be a big one. And people use different phrases, picky eating, selective eating. There's the yellow diet, the yellow foods diet or whatever they call it, where it's like, OK, it's like chicken nuggets and basically like six things that they eat.
Michael Huber (08:10.722)
Hmm.
Michael Huber (08:17.506)
Macaroni and cheese.
Nick (08:20.074)
Yeah, so it's like those very limited diets that can be a challenge, but I actually get excited by that because you know, that's where again we build that trust, you know, we start with the things that they are willing to buy in on, you know, I had an athlete who was on more of a yellow foods diet. He also ate like fruit snacks and stuff at lunch when you know, you're not doing anything. And so rather than taking away all of the things he was doing, we just took, we just changed some of the things, know, addition by subtraction or subtraction by addition.
and added better meals so that he felt better. And then we just moved those fruit snacks to a pre-workout. Yeah, eventually we want to improve some of snacking and stuff, but let's at least use it for now, use it to his advantage, and then over time we can change that to maybe some better options depending on what kind of fruit snacks they were. But yeah, think I would say the picky eating is a big one. Time is a very, very common thing. Oh, I just don't have time to eat breakfast. I don't have time to make breakfast.
Michael Huber (09:10.519)
Yeah.
Nick (09:19.792)
And so I'm all about creating systems, helping them build a system that doesn't require a lot of effort or time, know, figure out a way to make it as efficient as possible based on their schedule, based on what they need. And so yeah, those are the two biggest ones. I would say there is sometimes a parent factor of how the parent speaks to the athlete about food, but that's more, I would say that there's more individual cases with that.
Michael Huber (09:49.066)
Okay. And I think that that's true in the work that I do too, right? The way the parents communicate with the athlete about the environment has an influence, right? But at the end of the day, especially if you're dealing with teenagers, they definitely start to know better about what they want. They become more independent. They eat what they want. They do what they want. Their parents have less say in what they want. And so it's probably easier to get them to buy in than maybe like 11 or 12 year olds. So that's actually a good question. So like, what is the...
typical or what's like your ideal client or what's the typical age range that you deal with?
Nick (10:22.392)
Yeah, so I work most often with high school age, especially I would say freshmen. Well, actually, I would say more sophomore to seniors. I prefer for them to start working on this freshman sophomore years because this is going to give them more recruiting potential. This is going to, you know, the earlier we intervene, the better. But I do work with a lot of seniors because they're kind of in a pinch like, shoot, like I'm not in line with recruiting wise or I need to, you know, cut them, cut or gain or whatever.
And so, you know, that's often the range, but I also do work with some college age. I do work with some, like as early as 12 or 13 year olds. And then one thing that I'm working on building out and I'm starting with my current client base is something for parents where even if they do have a younger athlete who may not be ready for me, I can help teach them the skills, basically how I teach, you know, my athletes, help them learn those skills. And so, yeah.
Michael Huber (11:19.298)
Great.
So how would you say that's been received, the parent end of it, because that's something that's actually, you know, something that's in my mind as well. So like, and I do that, but not in a formal way. So like, how's that gone for you so far?
Nick (11:33.496)
Well, so Saturday is actually our first call with my current client base and talking about it. I just shared, hey, this is what I'm kind of thinking about. And then...
what do you think of it? And they're all like, yeah, like either I need it or yes, I know like other parents that need this. You know, I wish I would have known have the sooner type of stuff. And so on Saturday, what we'll do is we're gonna lay out, like I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna say like, hey, this is kind of what I'm looking at, but what is your, what is your take? Like what are the things that you feel like you need to cover or want covered? And the big things I wanna highlight there is, know, number one, there is the, the,
Information piece of it like yeah, you got to kind of know what your athlete should be eating. Okay, there's there's that box then the next pillar is like knowing
how to communicate that to your athletes. So that's where I talk about the performance focus, focus on what they care about. There's a lot of other aspects of that. And then the third piece is like the environment. So if you're not doing it, they're much less likely to do it. So it's like, yes, you don't need to eat like an athlete, but a lot of my framework around nutrition is, know, good sports nutrition is just good nutrition on steroids. You know, it's just like, we just have to take it to another level. And, and so
yes you still have that same framework for a regular you know person and we just have to amplify that for the athlete so if you make the changes they're more likely to you know follow suit.
Michael Huber (13:01.442)
Okay, so do you find that parents are compliant, they're willing to do that?
Nick (13:07.532)
I would say some, because actually I have a lot of families, like even some of the families I'm having conversations with right now, a lot of them will say like, you know, I want this for the whole family. You know, a of them say that they they're like, yes, I want to help my athlete, but I also I want this for the whole family. And I get that a lot. And some of the some of the families will actually start shifting some of what they do simply based on what I've been teaching their athletes and they see that their athletes are doing. even with me barely even communicating with them like on a more
intimate level more, you know, it's things that they can still take action on on their own.
Michael Huber (13:43.584)
Okay. That's great. So like, here's another question I have, and maybe you've answered it and I just didn't kind of pick up on it, but I am curious, like, how do you measure the results? Right? Like I know I, the results in mental performance coaching are very subjective, right? Meaning it's like based on the way the athlete is feeling about the changes that they've made and the changes in their emotions and their thoughts and the performance, right?
So like, how do you judge like performance or even success in the work that you're doing with athletes?
Nick (14:17.966)
Yeah, well, so as I did mention is that the most athletes that come to me, their first box that they want to check is they want to get bigger, stronger, or they want to get leaner, stronger. so, you know, typically there might be a scale piece of that. I don't obsess over the scale and I really try to stress that to my athletes.
But that's only one piece of the puzzle. Yes, that can help. But one thing that I do tell my athletes is you have to look at the bigger picture too. You know, if you are gaining weight or leaning out, your, your weight's coming down and you have less strength, less speed or less energy, then you're doing it wrong. You know, like just to give you a real life example of this, I was working with this travel baseball team. had about 20 guys that I was working with. So it's a little bit bigger group, know, certain, certain people might try to do their own thing.
little bit and one of the athletes who really wanted to lean out, really wanted to lose some weight, he started doing things his own way. He took some of what I did and then he basically amplified it where he was losing two, three pounds a week. And he was like, yeah, I hit this weight. He's all happy about it, that he was hitting these weights. And then I asked him, was like, so how's your strength been? He's like, well, I'm not able to lift as much. And then I was like, well, what about your energy? Yeah, I don't really have that great of energy. I'm like, so you're not performing.
as well. Yeah. So that weight's not good weight that we're losing right there. And so yes, that's a piece of the puzzle. But it's like, we've got to look at, you know, are you performing better with that change?
And I'm a firm believer that even if you're getting bigger, you can get faster. And even if you're getting leaner, you can still get stronger. Like it's just about how you do it. that, that approach there, but it's, it's, and that's where, you know, some, some parents may be like, like, I don't want to worry about the scale. It's like, okay, like this is, this is why that might be one measure. If the athlete decides that's what one of the things they want to track. But then I ask them, you know, let's also look at, if you're trying to lean out, let's look at how do you.
Nick (16:23.236)
close fit? How do you actually see yourself? Are you noticing, hey, I'm building muscle here. I'm actually seeing some of those changes. There's a visual, like you said, there's more of a subjective kind of view where it's like, yeah, it's not really measurable, but you can still see it. And then one key thing I want to highlight too is one of the biggest, and this is why I focus on macros first too,
Michael Huber (16:36.343)
Yeah.
Nick (16:48.638)
Every single athlete that goes through my program within first two weeks of working with me, they have more energy. They're like, wow, I have so much more energy. So even if they're not gaining the strength or going whatever direction yet, they all report better energy. It's like, that's not something you can measure per se. Like you could try, but like it is something that they physically feel and, and that gets some of that, that buy in as well, especially early on.
Michael Huber (17:15.66)
Yeah. And, and so I, and I think, listen, I think for a lot of the things that we do, right. In the work that we do to support athletes, whether you're a nutritionist, a mental performance coach, you know, a lot of it is subjective, right? It's self-report, right? But here's the thing, right? If the athlete is self-reporting that they feel better and they're performing better and they have more energy, then that's probably true, right? Like, yeah, could we find a
You know, are there ways to objectively measure that from the outside? Yes, but they're too time consuming. They're too expensive. They're very, very uncommon unless you're a professional athlete. So let's just stick to the way the athlete feels. If they're telling us it works, then it kind of works. And that's what I wrestle with. It's like, Hey, if you're happy and you feel better and you feel more confident and you're bouncing back, great. If you are happy about what's going on, great. However, I liked the example that you gave because it's sort of
you know, about the athlete who was leaning out, but was sort of losing performance. Like, do you feel like there are some athletes that may, and that's, I'll use this example. They may prioritize appearance over performance and that they're more willing to like take the decline in performance to look better. And that tells you something about their motivation, right? Do you feel like that that's something that comes up a lot?
Nick (18:34.998)
Yeah, so I mean I do see that sometimes with female athletes and I don't work with per se the female athlete try or it's not even that.
Michael Huber (18:39.456)
Okay.
Nick (18:44.408)
called that anymore, but reds, like I don't really work with like eating disorders and stuff like that, but that's where a lot of them do focus more on that appearance over the performance. And there's a lot of underlying things that could be unwrapped around psychology and stuff on that. But I also simply have the athletes like say, a football player, know, like a wide receiver, a defensive back where they, they want the six pack, they want all the things they want to look a certain way, but then they're undersized. And so when they take hits, yeah, they take harder hits or they're
Michael Huber (18:57.218)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (19:14.362)
not able to, their energy doesn't sustain through a game because they have nothing that they're drawing from. And so that's where sometimes the danger can be is, you you have these athletes who want to go D1, but again, they're, they're too focused on having a six pack versus actually like, Hey, can I actually perform at a high level, you know, with that? And it doesn't mean you can't have a six pack, but it's like, look at, you know, the bigger picture there.
and in wrestlers, mean, there's the appearance of that, it's not more so, it's more about the scale than the appearance, I think, for them. know, most of them just are like, I gotta check the weight box to make sure I weigh in at the right weight, basically. So.
Michael Huber (19:41.186)
Hmm.
Michael Huber (19:54.082)
Sure. Yeah. And so that I was actually thinking that before, but since you brought it up, I'll ask you about that specifically about wrestlers. And I've worked with a number of wrestlers and I was never really a wrestler. I wrestled for a bit, but I know a little about, about wrestling culture. And the only, thing that I always wondered about as a lay person is like you're cutting weight, but like when you go to a lower weight class, like you're not going to feel good because you're lacking in energy. Right? Like, so like,
How do you sort of balance that, right? Like you want them to eat, you want them to have enough energy, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. So like, how do you work with that practical constraint if you're working with a wrestler where you're like, hey, I want you to eat, but I get that you're trying to cut weight. Like, are you able to navigate that or are you pushing back against that and saying, hey, I'd rather you stay in your natural weight class and eat because it's gonna be better for performance or whatever. Like, what's that conversation sound?
Nick (20:49.698)
Yeah, and I think it depends on the athlete because there are some athletes that have been in the sport so long that they will not change. Like I've had experiences with that even on like, know, strategy calls talking to somebody and it's like ends up not being a good fit because they are so set in their way. But I think for me, it's it's about.
building a solid foundation. And so like I'm working with a wrestler who also plays football and that's a common challenge of, I want to be this weight for football, but then I want to be this weight for wrestling, which is like two weeks away from each other, whatever it might be.
So it's like you have to figure out, okay, what is a weight that I can get to before football season that is close enough or kind of in the middle or somewhere in there where you can get to a good place where you feel like, I can perform well at this weight and, and it's a good kind of happy medium so that you're not cutting 15 pounds in a week or 10 pounds in a week or whatever, because yeah, you, are going to sacrifice performance. You know, if you dehydrate yourself, yeah, you're not going to be more
your mental focus isn't going to be there, your energy is going to be not going to be there. Like think about the power that is required of a wrestler. Like you will not be able to like move as well if you're dehydrated, if you're under fueled and so that's where we have to find that you know make sure that you're fueling yourself.
And so yeah, start with a good baseline is that first step of like, let's set you up for success by starting at the right place. Then when we get to, you know, like closer to the season, yeah, we can maybe fluctuate weight a little bit. mean, hey, we fluctuate weight like five, 10 pounds in a day, like, you know, just from fluids and what types of foods we eat and stuff. But then the next piece of this, and this is where, you know, you kind of hear the guys that the dieticians, nutritionists that work at the.
Nick (22:44.11)
the UFC level even, and they talk about different strategies of fat versus carbs that week before weigh-in or those couple days before weigh-in. You can still get the same amount of calories in that short window of those 48, 72 hours. You can get the same amount of calories and just switch to more fat-based calories. So if you take a pound of fat and a pound of carbs, the fat's gonna have more calories. It's gonna be double the amount, a little bit more than double.
And so you can, but then you think about weigh-in wise, like in that short window of weigh-in, yeah, you're not gonna necessarily store, like it's not gonna really impact you on the scale as much versus carbs where, yeah, number one, you have to eat a lot more to get those calories.
but then also carbs hold on to water. And so that's one natural thing. So their recommendation basically is, I think it's specifically the 24 or 48 hours before weigh-ins, is you start, it's a shorter window that you start cutting out.
more of the carbs, especially fiber, because fiber especially holds on to water. And then you focus more on the fats basically. So you can still get those calories, but just kind of in a different way. And so that can help you bring down that. And this is why keto, people get excited about keto. Like they're like, I'm losing weight. It's like, you're losing water weight. You lost that five or 10 pounds a week because.
Michael Huber (24:06.388)
Okay, I didn't know that, okay.
Nick (24:10.454)
Yeah, so like over time, yes, you're going to lose body fat and stuff like that. But people get excited because they see lose 10 pounds in a week. And it's like, yeah, that's not body fat that you're like, there's very small percentage of that. That's actually body fat that you're losing. And most of that's actually water weight. And, you know, it's just based on how our body holds on to water, which again, mostly through like carbs and fiber whatnot.
Michael Huber (24:31.232)
Yeah, I learned something new today, but it, but it does sound like there's a practical application, right? Because in those instances where you're weighing in a fat would be better because you're getting, it's more calorie dense. It breaks down, right? It doesn't hold the water or you can get the energy you need without putting pounds onto the scale is essentially how I understand you explaining it.
Nick (24:49.879)
Yeah.
Yeah, and we don't like completely cut out carbs, but it's just, we cut it down and then we make sure that like one of those.
The top three-ish things that we address after weigh-in is hydration, including with electrolytes and with carbohydrates. And then, you know, you get more of a balance like PB &Js or whatever to get like some of the protein and get some of those carbs that you can use for that, you know, that match. But that'll also be based on like how much of a window you have. You know, if you have 30 minutes before your match versus an hour, like we can do different things with that time. So, yeah.
Michael Huber (25:19.809)
Okay.
Michael Huber (25:28.726)
Yeah. Yeah. So I want to ask you this question and I might tie back to some of the things we've already talked about, but like calories, right? Calories is a big one. And I have had some interactions with, you know, nutrition coaches in my work peripherally, not like deep in the weeds, right? But one of the things I've heard them say is we really try to stay away from counting calories, right? And I'm getting the sense that you're probably in the same boat because we're talking about macros. We're talking about
composition and all this other stuff, but we're not really talking about numbers, right? Like, do you find that to be a challenge in terms of educating people? Like, hey, let's take the focus off the calories and let's take the focus, put the focus on to, what are we putting in our body? Don't worry about the numbers.
Nick (26:13.9)
Yeah, so clients wise, I thankfully rarely have to worry about that, but that's usually because I kind of filter out some of the people who will only focus on that. even in that same group of baseball players that I worked with, there was one who was very much focused, actually.
It was him. He was the one who that's how we knew how much protein he was consuming because he was tracking everything. He felt like it was helpful for him. Some people are going to be like that. My brother-in-law weighs everything he eats and he's a former addict and has some of those things where it just makes sense for him. He's got ADD, all the things that just it makes sense for him. I'm like, OK, great. But for most athletes, they don't have the time, the mental capacity, all of that to do all of that tracking. So, you know, that's where we focus.
Michael Huber (26:35.682)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (26:59.95)
I treat progressive overload in nutrition where yeah, if we're trying to gain weight, we progressively overload and that just means, hey, we're adding more to breakfast or eating a real breakfast. We're adding more to pre or post workout or whatever that might be versus just focusing on, hey, add this many calories or whatever, which sometimes it's nice as a guide. Maybe the amount of carbs or protein is helpful as a guide, but in the big picture, we eat different things each day.
like a lot of things fluctuate so constantly tracking can be can really hold athletes back for at least at the high school the lower levels essentially you know pro level it's like there's so many trackers data whatever that they can do that but
Michael Huber (27:42.902)
Right. Well, and that's their career, right? Like you're going to be willing to be more precise and spend more time on it. One, you probably have a little bit more time to do that, but also it's tied to your profession. Right. And I think it kind of, you know, it's like, if, if you don't have enough time to make breakfast in the morning, like you definitely don't have enough time to weigh your food. Trust me. I've been one through that phase in my life and it was great in terms of what I was trying to accomplish, but you have to be really, really disciplined to like weigh your food and measure your food.
and prepare all your meals in advance. like that takes a lot of time and energy and you've got to be really like, you've got to really have systems set up for that. Right. So like, and it may not be that valuable because if we're talking about performance, right, ultimately, if we look great, that's a bonus, but it doesn't really matter what you look like necessarily. If you're getting the performance that you want, there's a lot of different performers out there who are super really like at the highest end of the spectrum in terms of what they output and they don't necessarily look.
Great Luke Luke Adonch its right the most like obvious example of the battery He doesn't look like the poster boy for nutrition and he probably isn't but he's still a great performer because he has ability and all these things right so like it doesn't necessarily have to be like I don't have to be mr. Olympia to be a great performer I just need to put the right stuff into my body to get the energy to give the outputs to perform my best on the field and stay stay fit and you know energetic so I have yeah
So this is a question I wanted to ask you and I had it written down and I missed it. But like, what would you say to a, you know, and maybe the phrase doesn't even resonate, a hard gainer, right? Somebody who has a hard time gaining weight, right? And they're like, I'm eating and I'm eating and I'm eating and I'm not gaining weight. Like how do you handle that situation? If you, if you've had it, I'm guessing you.
Nick (29:32.002)
Yes, so pretty much every athlete that's wanted to gain and has worked with me.
or not worked with me. Like they all say they're hard gainers. Everyone says I have a fast metabolism. I'm a hard gainer, et cetera. You know, what really comes down to is number one, are you over training and under fueling, which is, you know, most likely the case. Like a lot of them are just working out so much and it's impossible for them to gain because they're probably training more than they actually need to, to get the results they need. So that there there's some of those athletes. actually working with an athlete in Canada right now who that was kind of the case for a while is he was just
training so much and it was impossible to keep up with that.
The other piece of it, a lot of athletes will say, I'm eating all the time. I'm eating so much. I'm like, I actually get their food logs when I have them do a three day food log just so I know where they're at. And I'm like, no, you're not. You're skipping breakfast on these days. Or this breakfast was cereal. Or you just had a protein shake post workout, literally like 150 calories of just protein. Yeah, you're not going to gain if that goes back to the protein thing.
if you're not consistent. You know, this is with anything that we train, whatever speak to you is that consistency. And so you may say you're eating a lot, but you're not eating a lot consistently.
Michael Huber (30:53.506)
Yeah. And that's very similar. mean, it's obviously food is different than the mental side of sport, but it's the same concept of, Hey, we can talk about this, right? And we can do something on one day. But if you're not practicing this stuff every single day, developing the habits and staying with it, it's going to fall off the cliff, right? So you got to stay with it. And so actually when you brought up the food log, right, which assume for the people who listening, who don't know, it's like, you're just writing down everything you eat. Is that correct? Yeah.
Nick (31:21.134)
Yeah, so I don't have them use an app or anything. literally like the notes in their phone. I just have them do that and they send me the screenshots and then I can always refer back to it later. yeah, it's yeah.
Michael Huber (31:31.49)
Do you do any sort of like logging of like energy levels or like do any sort of journaling on the back of that? Meaning like today I felt, you know, before the game I felt this way after the game I felt this way to sort of reflect and measure like not only did I eat this food, but like the changes in the way they feel as they go through your programming.
Nick (31:55.64)
Yeah, I tried to do that a few times. Like I tried to do like, okay, your energy levels, you know, at baseline at the beginning of the program versus like a few weeks in. But what I find with that is number one, they often don't do that part. They only do the food part of it, whatever. And again, it just becomes so many different things for them to keep track of, especially when they are even like, I mean, again, an athlete I just had on the call yesterday, first call he had with me and he was like, what's a carb?
Michael Huber (32:13.046)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (32:24.782)
I'm like, I'm not gonna have that kid try to do other things. Like he doesn't even know what different carbs are, you know? And so you have to kind of look at where that athlete is at. And some of them are gonna be more like that. you know, that's where, hey, maybe we focus on that once we have the solid foundation, you're eating consistently all the things, then we can look at, maybe we measure and kind of, you know,
Michael Huber (32:28.364)
Yes.
Nick (32:47.54)
Explore with certain things that like what works what doesn't work, but you know most of them are you know? They're gonna feel it. You know they're gonna see the difference
And part of that reflection too, and this is for the parents out there, one of the things that you can ask is, how are your energy levels today? It looked like you were really locked in versus another day where it's like, you were really locked in on Thursday. What happened on Saturday? Have that self-reflection piece helping them by asking those questions.
Michael Huber (33:17.12)
Yeah. That's a great point, right? Because I think you have said this in different ways over the course of the last 30 minutes or so, which is, and I'm a big believer and I'm same in my work, meeting them where they're at. You just said that basically meet them where they're at, right? Like you don't want to overwhelm them. Like at the start, right here, do all these things that I think you should do. And now there's so many things that I have to do or things I don't understand or things I don't want to do that. I just say, forget it. I'm not going to do any of them versus.
Hey, let's start with the simplest, the easiest thing to do first, get good at that and then slowly layer on. Right. And that is, it's a really important coaching technique, whether you're a nutrition coach or a nutritionist or you're a mental performance coach or any kind of coach, because I think sometimes there is an expectation from adults, especially as a parent, like thinking about like, Hey, just go do this, go do this. Just go clean your room. Right. And, or just go do whatever.
And we think that they should just do it. And it's probably not the most effective way to sort of get them to do it because we're just throwing too much at them versus, just go pick up that pair of socks and throw them in the hamper. And tomorrow you do something else. So I think it's great that you're able to do it that way and meet them where they're at because I think there's so many limitations. Every kid is very different. But that also requires patience.
You know the understanding the empathy to connect with the kid and take them through the process, you know, whether they're a complete novice or they're really really, they're really experienced. so as we're sort of moving towards, moving towards wrapping up, right? Like, so you talked about before you talked a little bit about, you kind of touched on female athletes. Can you talk about differences? I mean, I know this may be a hard question to answer cause it's a generalization.
between males and females? Are there differences in your coaching or is it pretty much the same or is it just everybody's individually unique?
Nick (35:18.242)
Yeah, I think it probably more falls under the individual piece. And this is where I really try to have those conversations with athletes and families before I get into a program with them is because there are going to be some athletes where I'm hearing how they communicate, how they talk, whatever. And I'm like, no, you should go see this person or you should go see that person. And so that's where it's like, you have to kind of recognize, yeah, some people are not.
Michael Huber (35:22.155)
Okay.
Nick (35:44.846)
they're in a very different mental state versus, know, lot of the, if when I do work with female athletes, I do work with, you know, 90, 95 % male athletes, just being one of the male only males in this profession. But the piece of that though is,
with the female athletes that often work with me, they tend to be the ones who are a little bit more gritty, a little bit more just like black and white, like they just, you know, this is what they need. Very rarely are they more of the...
I don't know how to describe it, but they're just more focused, I guess, and really locked in. And it's not focused locked in in a negative way where it's like, okay, we're concerned about weight, you know, like obsession and things like that. Just know they're just more locked into, they want to be their best performer. And not all athletes are going to be like that. And so that's where, again, like some of those may not be the best fit for me, but I know like other, you know, I actually just had a call with another dietician yesterday who does specialize in reds and eating disorders. I'm like, yeah, like I would say.
Michael Huber (36:31.116)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (36:46.21)
any of those people her way over me because she really can communicate on a different level with them.
Michael Huber (36:52.662)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's, that's an ethical thing to do. Right. I don't know the ethical guidelines and provisions of being, you know, a registered dietitian, but it's the same in our field. Right. If you don't feel like you can help somebody, you know, you're not competent enough to help somebody in a particular area where they need it. You refer them out to the right person. Right. And it's great that you're, you're doing that and you're not sort of like trying to like take every client and say, I can help you when, know, maybe there's somebody better.
who can help. the last question I usually ask for everybody I have on the podcast is just like sort of like, what's the like most important thing or the one takeaway, the one piece of advice you would leave with whoever it is you want to leave it with. Like, let's just say in this case, it's the athlete. Like what's the one thing you would leave for an athlete to take away from this conversation that would be valuable for them to absorb and digest?
Nick (37:50.67)
Yeah. So yeah. So breakfast is the most.
Michael Huber (37:50.87)
No pun intended.
Nick (37:59.074)
Breakfast is gonna be your biggest difference maker. So yes, pre and post workout. So those three, breakfast, pre post workout are my biggest things I dress with athletes right off the bat. Breakfast is one of those big, big missing pieces that a lot of athletes are missing. And...
With that, like, you know, it's not just cereal. It's not just protein shake. It's not some protein waffles. Like it's a meal. And some athletes have a hard time eating a lot at breakfast. This is where we get more individual. We maybe do, you know, like with one of my athletes, we do half a breakfast and then they get to school, they have the other half of the breakfast or things like that. But breakfast is gonna make the biggest difference because number one, you're less likely to have cravings because you're getting the energy first thing in the day and you're less likely to gravitate towards the candy and the chips and stuff.
Thank
you will be more likely to build muscle because you're eating enough, you know, you're eating more. Even on the leaning outside, back to the cravings, if you are trying to lean out and you're skipping breakfast, you're more likely gravitating towards not great things later on. And you're also not stimulating that metabolism very well. And so I really want to speak to especially, you know, I know there's some parents out there or certain people out there who think fasting, you know, this fasting is a thing. And it's like, okay, like there are legitimate signs to fasting. But we're also speaking to an
athlete. An athlete who has school that you want them to perform better in, which statistically shown breakfast, you perform better in school with breakfast. Number two, all of my athletes feel better at their four or five, six PM workouts when they ate breakfast. And so, you know, we've got to address that. It's going to be it's going to be very difficult for a high school athlete or even college athlete to truly fast in the way that like this, the the big intermittent fasting people will say is because they are working out all types of
Nick (39:46.03)
day and they are in school at certain types of day and so if you want them to perform then they need to eat breakfast. Regardless of what your goal is, that is the biggest difference maker.
Michael Huber (39:57.506)
Okay, there it is. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. We've heard that forever, but we're going to reinforce it right now. So Nick, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your wisdom. And I really appreciate it. And, know, let's keep the conversation going.
Nick (40:12.79)
Yeah, no, for sure. And I appreciate you having me on. This was a good chat.
Michael Huber (40:17.09)
Thank you so much.