Jan Cocozziello is the Head Basketball Coach at Saint Joseph High School in Metuchen, NJ. “Joe’s” is one of the most storied high school programs in New Jersey producing NBA first-round draft picks Andrew Bynum, Jay Williams, Karl Anthony Towns, and Wade Baldwin. Jan was a four-year letter winner at Hartwick College, where he led his team to an Eastern Collegiate Athletic Conference championship as a senior. He is the third all-time leading scorer in school history with 1,868 points.
Jan played basketball professionally in China for one season before returning to the United States to serve as a basketball coach and teacher at the high school level in New Jersey, including serving as an assistant coach at Saint Joseph before ascending to the head coaching role. He was also head men’s golf coach at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey where he helped the team place second in the Garden State Athletic Championships and qualify for the Region XIX Championships.
In this episode, Mike and Jan talk about his experiences in the recruiting process as a basketball player through high school, prep school, and Hartwick College. Jan also discusses his role in building the storied St. Joe's basketball program in his image. Listeners will learn how a former college and professional basketball player navigated many difficult transitions through his athletic career. Jan talks candidly about how he guides young men through these same challenges as CEO of a very successful high school basketball program.
INTRO
Welcome to the Freshmen Foundation Podcast. Helping you make the jump from high school athletics to the collegiate level and beyond, with your host, Michael Huber.
Mike: Hi everyone. I'm Mike Huber, founder and CEO of the Freshmen Foundation. Welcome to the Freshmen Foundation Podcast, a podcast specifically geared toward understanding the transition from high school to college athletics. My guest today is Jan Cocozziello, head basketball coach at St. Joseph's High School in Metuchen, New Jersey. For those of you that don't know, St. Joseph's High School basketball has turned out some pretty okay basketball players over the years like Karl-Anthony Towns and Jay Williams. Jan was a four-year starter at Hartwick College in New York and played basketball professionally in China. Please welcome Jan, my good friend to the podcast. Coach Jan, what's going on?
(00:00:58) Jan: How you doing Mike? How's everything?
Mike: Good man, it's good to have you on here. I've been looking forward to this one for a while.
(00:01:03) Jan: Definitely. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me.
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Mike: So, first and foremost, we're all sort of still stuck in limbo here with COVID. Basketball season is in a state of flux. So what's going on with high school basketball in the state of New Jersey right now?
(00:01:21) Jan: Guidelines that actually came out last week were 15 games schedule, county tournament based on the actual conference or county itself. So it's pending up to them. And no state tournament. We actually have an athletic department meeting tonight around six, where we're just going to go over some guidelines, but it's pretty much laid out for you. Know how to state games, can’t travel because initially I was just like, well, I'll try to schedule maybe someone in New York or Pennsylvania, but that kind of went by the wayside real quick when reading through the guidelines. And it's actually a different start date. It's actually starting January 11. It's been kind of difficult, as you know some of our guys, and I'm kind of feeling for them, because, in a sense, I'm happy because we are getting a season. But in another sense, some of the kids are just being robbed of extra games, and then no fans, high school atmosphere, potentially county tournament again, we don't know, but definitely a state tournament. So maybe something good will happen in the next two to three months. Just try to stay optimistic and positive with it.
Mike: Yeah, it's tough situation. So for those of you listening, I coached with Jan for two years, once as a volunteer assistant alongside him and then under him as the head coach at St. Joe's. So going into second season. And so I know a lot of Jan’s players pretty well. And I think they're just a great bunch of kids and I do feel for them, but tell me what you're
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hearing from them in terms of how they're handling it, what they've been working on, what their concerns are. I just want to hear more about what's going on with them.
(00:03:06) Jan: Honestly Mike, you know the group, the great group that's come back and it's actually been such an uplifting thing for me, to keep me going during all this because they're working out on their own, we're renting gym space, whether at the express or getting St. Joe's and Cody Robinson, our captain he's leading workouts. But, you have a group of seniors like Miles and Elijah Barlow got transferred in from Union Catholic. You have guys showing up, and then it's trickling down to the younger guys. So the younger guys are showing up. So basically, we did that pretty much all summer for workouts.
Obviously, it was under the guidelines of how many people you can have in the gym and everything like that, but to see the consistent basis there and really good leadership, as one would say, it actually makes me feel well. I'll give you an example, I was it was right around Fourth of July weekend, I was going down to a family member's house in Virginia. So I decided to stop by the express real quick just to see Coach Norton. I didn't think anyone was going to be there and I walked in, nobody's on the floor, coach Norton's not on the floor. Obviously, I'm not there because I'm stopping by to see Coach Norton. And the guys are actually doing basketball drills and scenarios that, being in practice with me for the last couple years when I was running practice as an assistant in that and then a coach, they were actually doing stuff.
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For a split second, I kind of froze because that's something every coach wants no matter what level it is, whether it's a high school and middle school, college where you have guys that can basically run things and do things and not need you. Those are the teams I think that go a longer way because one, because of the willingness that we always spoke about and the sacrifice, but two, I'm not a parent, so I don't know. But in a sense for a second there, I almost felt like a parent because I saw nine guys or 10 guys out there that day, whoever was there doing stuff, and it kind of made me freeze. And I made a phone call when I got in the car, and I was just like, “I don't believe it”, because it's a culture thing that has to change. And that takes time. Rome wasn't built in one day, as we both know.
Mike: Listen, Cody is a kid, you mentioned Cody Robinson, your senior Captain kid. Cody's a kid I'm very close to and I think the world of and I'm not surprised by that. But it is great to hear that the group, and Cody specifically is leading the group through that. Because I think it speaks to motivation, if I'm kind of putting on my sports psychology hat, this is a group that's motivated to really have a great year, regardless of the conditions around what that season's going to look like. It would have been really easy for them to say, “Hey, what's the point. We don't know what's going to happen”. Or “maybe we shouldn't be doing this”, or maybe it's like, “whatever”, they're there doing the work under the conditions that they could do it because they really want to be great as a unit, which like you said, it probably warms your heart to see that, especially after a couple of years of drilling that message without the same level of return.
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(00:06:16) Jan: Yeah, exactly. And I won't name drop too much, but even like another kid, like Miles, and you know Miles, very shy, very quiet. But he's out there, he's leading guys at times, he's not like the top of the mountain leader type of kid, but he's showing flashes of some things. But even speaking to the guys like, “Hey, where's your head at?” And some guys are just like, “yeah, it kind of stinks. We know what's going to go on, because of college recruiting and things like that”. But you have some guys are like, “Hey, you can only control what you can control. And we can only do the best we can right now”. And when you have that type of attitude, I say to myself, “you know what, they're going to be okay in life”, because they get it, they understand that there's always going to be trials and tribulations. And you always know some of the examples that you and I have spoken about privately together, examples about my life, examples about your life, some of the examples I share with them, to make them understand, because at the end of the day, you're dealing with 14 to 18 year olds, but when those older guys can understand, like, “hey, it kind of is what it is, you got to be optimistic, but I'm still going to show up and work hard”.
And I just don't think you might get that other places at times, because some people might just pack it in. And that's just no fault of theirs. But when you have such a, I hate to say, it was kind of a grim outlook, and then you kind of get the schedule, then you kind of get the rumor. Like I got the rumor, I was up in Albany, New York, I got a phone call from somebody saying like, “Hey, no county tournaments, but there's going to be a small state tournament, there's only going to be 15 games, you could schedule one at a conference
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game”. So then I'm kind of like, make a couple of phone calls, try to understand a little more. And then once the guidelines come out last week, they're different. So it kind of is what it is. But like I said, my heart breaks, because you want what's best for them. But also at the same time, I hope and I think these guys are getting something at a wall this, and trying to understand the bigger picture of things in terms of, still put in the hard work when things aren't going your way. And life just throws different things at you.
Mike: From the time that I've gotten to know you and spent with you, both in the gym and outside of it. I don't think I've ever met anybody, a coach at the level that you're at, which is a pretty high level basketball program in the state of New Jersey, historically, who preaches process and who preaches life lessons and the importance of competing not just to win games, because I think those of us who've seen you on the side-line know that you don't like to lose, but you understand that there's a bigger picture. And I think for those kids to understand that they can work through this, learn from it and take it with them. It's a really important thing, bigger than any basketball season.
(00:09:15) Jan: Yeah, real quick, you always hear me talk about, and you were in those locker rooms after those big wins those big losses. I always say it's just like, I hate losing, I love winning, but I think the relationships that I've formed in the couple years as being an assistant and now being a head coach, he got someone like a Keshawn Schulte’s or comes back last week just to see what's going on. These kids got plays football at Villanova. He doesn't have to come back, or Tyree Ford or Demarcus, these kids come
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back. And I think for me, that goes a longer way. If you were to tell me like, “hey, you're only going to coach 10 years, maybe win a couple county titles anD1 state title but you're going to have lifelong relationships where people are always going to come back and see you or call you, even after your coaching”, I’d probably take that more than the person roaming the side-lines for 30 years where the game kind of passes you because you either get stuck in your ways, or it's all you know, and hey, you might want a couple more state titles and things like that. But I think for me, like I said, I love to win. I want to win as much as everyone else. You know how a loss hurts me at times, I don't really show it all that much. You might see hellfire and brimstone in practice the following day. But I want them to understand like what it takes to be successful at a high level.
Mike: A little while ago, you mentioned the recruiting process. So what are you seeing there specifically for this group of kids who are maybe looking to play at the college level? What's happening there now?
(00:10:48)Jan: Yeah. You know, Mike, when I got that phone call about a month ago, when I was up in Albany, I also found out that week that eligibility was granted for college players, D1, D2, D3, Junior College. So what does that mean? That means a whole domino effect that just starts happening. And it's not even really mentioned transfers, because if you had kids that are D1 transfers that transfer to D2, or D3, or you have a really good D2 guy that wants to transfer to a low D1. So there's such a convoluted spider web of things that just happened. So when I'm talking to some of these college coaches,
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I had some coaches get back to me, I have D1 coach, and I won't mention what conference or where they're from, or name or anything, but they're like, “honestly, Jan, if I told you what I was looking for right now, I'd be lying to you”. And he was just being honest. And it was a scholarship school. I won't say what level but it was a scholarship school. I've had other guys just really not get back to me because they just don't even know. So it's been difficult. I also know that some schools don't offer a fifth year. So I know some colleges with seniors, a lot of kids are taking a gap year, or players in general are taking a gap year, so it doesn't hurt their eligibility. So does that mean it's the class of 2022? I don't know.
In regards to our guys, it's just been kind of mediocre because I just think everyone's in a holding pattern because we don't know what's going on with budgeting at colleges. Are programs getting cut? Are you losing money, especially these D3s and D2s? I think a lot of these D2s that can give only, let's say eight or nine scholarships a year they might be cut to maybe giving five so what does that mean? Do you kind of just wait the last minute to for some hopeful D1 guy to transfer down in July or August? So then what happens our guys our guys get pushed to the bottom. So I mean, there is a thing out there where you can do like a waiver program where you can take classes at a county school and then come back and play as a senior we call it like the super senior thing. But then you're asking kids to pay another year tuition at St. Joe's which we both know, It's kind of high. So again, that's where I feel like it hurts me because I see guys that, you have a group
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that's working hard and they want it but they're being penalized not directly by something they did but just the world we live in right now. So that's what's been going on.
Mike: So what I've learned about the recruiting process not just in basketball, but in baseball and soccer as well is, that a lot of it is driven by club travel AAU, etc. What does that say about the importance of the 2021 spring AAU season for kids? Does it put more emphasis on it?
(00:13:49) Jan: To put it bluntly, kids got screwed, but yeah, the spring with what happened with COVID coming down in March, and then really spreading like wildfire April and May. Those are big recruiting live period times for basketball. I don't know about the others.
Mike: Right, they're different.
(00:14:12) Jan: Yeah, so a lot of kids missed out. Now look, some other states as you know, in the news not to get into it, it was kind of like the Wild West. They kind of still went about their business and whatever New Jersey kind of locked it down. So there really wasn't much that was happening. And then when we kind of started getting out of it a little bit, some people were trying to hold a few tournaments and things like that, but it was outside. So then that's a whole different ballgame that you have to take into account. And then you have to take into account are coaches going to travel to come see you. Are they going to hide? Can you cross state lines? If you're really highly touted recruit, are you
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going to get on a plane to go see someone? I think we live in an age now where, you and I are talking through video on a computer. I think as a society, we've kind of adapted to that pretty quickly, because you still had to do things. So the recruiting kind of got hurt a lot, because now what happens is you haven't seen a kid, you're kind of borderline about a kid, do I offer a kid this scholarship because if I'm a college coach, if I offer this kind of scholarship, and he fails, and it's an indictment on me, and then I want to keep my job, and then I can't feed my family and things like that.
So then you have people that are really hesitant. If you have some of these AAU tournaments, where all college coaches can go, they all sit together, they all talk, who knows who, you don't have that. Are you going to have people in the gym? Because, are you allowed to have people in the gym to film? Because then if you film, you can upload it to YouTube. I don't know if people necessarily had that. Some people were out there filming some of these outdoor leagues this summer, because we had some of our guys like Cody or Omari or Miles, things like that, where they were on film, and you can see the highlight. But, you know as well as I do, if you're a coach, are you going to go off a 45 second highlight, or you're going to go want to see them? It's up for debate. It's always the thing we talk about all the time as coaches.
Mike: Yeah, and listen, given the circumstances, we've all had to adapt. And maybe you’ll have to do that. Maybe you have to rely on the video now, because you don't have a choice. And I actually wrote that down while you were talking. The role, and I don't want
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to get too much into this, because it's kind of deep in the weeds conversation, but the role of technology in the process. But I think even more importantly, how much onus or emphasis does that put on individual player themselves, the kid to do to go above and beyond to find ways to communicate with coaches, and really make the case for themselves that they should be recruited in this environment where maybe they would normally have the coach come to them?
(00:16:44) Jan: You have things like Twitter, you have things like Instagram. Look, I think in this world of basketball for basketball, I'm sure it's like this and other sports. It's kind of like, who knows who if you're playing for somebody and knows somebody that knows somebody, word of mouth kind of travels. So I think kids kind of have to put themselves out there and kind of market themselves a little more than they have to, and then it kind of crosses a little line of like, when's too much too much, or when is it not enough. Kind of gets a little, to me anyway, in my opinion, it kind of gets a little dicey. Because you're almost like selling yourself in the market. And I get it, when you go out into the real world might go on 30 interviews, and you got to sell yourself to all 30 or you don't get a job. I get it, it can be more demoralizing to a kid who's 16, 17 years old, who has the hopes of being a scholarship player or playing at a big name school.
In actuality, schools might be recruiting them that they don't like, and then, how do they get down on themselves? Or what do they do? And how do they overcome it? And obviously, that's something that's more in your woods, at you talk about. I can only talk
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about the process of some things. I do know, I've texted way more coaches, and called more coaches and just be like, “hey, just do me the solid, take a look at the video”. And I'll just go on a rundown with the kid and I'll try to sell him as much as I can. But these guys are probably getting 30 calls like that as well. So what are you supposed to do at the end of it all?
Mike: Right, I mean, listen, it raises a lot of great points for me about what do you control? How much do you do? All those things in the process, it's really tricky. And then you're talking not only about the idea that these kids want to play in college, maybe there's a level of discouragement that they're not getting the feedback that they want, but then you're also kind of sitting on the heels of this major, major transition to not just to go play in college, but to just be in college. To go from maybe living at home to living by yourself, there's just so many things that are going around. That kind of is where I get in. There are so many elements that go into the transition from high school to college that a lot of these kids even ready for it on the base of it, like the fundamentals of it, then you throw all these curveballs and then it gets even harder. That kind of leads me, I want to go back to your story a little bit. So can you talk about what your background is athletically maybe going back to high school even?
(00:19:07) Jan: Yeah, so whole life played football, basketball, baseball. Baseball is probably my best sport, football was second basketball was third, but I had a passion about basketball, won varsity letters in high school, Junior year rolls around again, I'm
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sure we'll touch on this at some point now or within the next 10 or 15 minutes. Now, I wasn't the best student, I really wasn't and it kind of affected me in some regards. I wasn't saying I wasn't cutting class or anything like that, or wasn't doing work. I was trying to do the work as best as I could. But I had a learning disability and I was diagnosed with it and everything and I needed more of a smaller classroom setting for a comfortability standpoint. So after that, after high school graduated, it was kind of like the junior college route, was looking like it. A close friend of mine, but a childhood friend, Kevin Ryan. His family knew some people because Kevin was going to prep school at the time in Massachusetts. Somebody knew somebody as we know, as we always talk about, and I went up for a weekend up to New Hampshire.
So mind you, from New Jersey, Westfield being around close to New York City buildings going up to New Hampshire for a week. And that was a shell shock. And so they offered me an academic and athletic scholarship to come there to go to prep school. And I was kind of like, “you know what, it's probably the best bet for me, because maybe it gives me an extra year to get my LSAT scores up and my grades up”.
So for me, that was a huge shock to the system. Because driving, it was six and a half hours away. I’m in the middle of nowhere, wasn’t even like dorm buildings. It was like regular old dorm housing. So mind you, it was almost like a movie, like a good old hunting movie. Cold, snow on the ground, you're driving up, it's like no. And that was a huge shock. And I'll never forget, my dad dropped me off. We had all this stuff. And there are
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all these rules, like study hall at seven o'clock every night, Sunday through Thursday. Got to be lights out by 11.
Now mind you, this isn't a military school, and I started crying like a baby. I won't lie to you, I really did. Because my entire life, I knew only what was in New Jersey and Westfield. And furthermore, I only had my dad, my mom wasn't there. And I was afraid to leave my dad. But something like clicked in me. I'm like, “you want to make it out of here and not be another statistic, man, you need to suck it up”. I'll never forget, my dad was like, “if you don't want to stay, we'll pack your stuff up, and we'll go”. And I was like, “No, I got to do this. Because this is how I'm going to like get through life”. And it was tough. But I had football, I played football there and I played basketball there. I met some great people at the time. I couldn't stand it, Mike, I can’t even tell you, but looking back on it was probably one of the best things ever happened to me in my life. And that times I still get emotional thinking about it. Because it was it was a crazy time because you think about that feeling. So once I got through that, went through the whole recruiting process, didn't do well SAT’s. So I wind up missing out on a few scholarships, but went to college.
Mike: I mean, listen to that. There's a lot there. I mean, first of all, let me just say, that's some stuff that I did not know about you. And I appreciate you sharing it. Because quite frankly, I was surprised, like when you said “I wasn't a good student, I wasn't the best student”, that surprised because I know you as a guy who loves to read, who's like a quotes guy. He's a guy like so articulate and intellectual and like to say that you were,
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‘weren't the best student’ kind of just through me. But then I sort of understood a little better that, listen, people who have learning disabilities probably don't like to learn as much because it's really hard. So can you talk about that the learning disability, like how it came to be diagnosed? What did you learn from it? All those things. I'm just so curious now.
(00:23:04) Jan: Yeah. So I believe I was diagnosed when I was seven or eight. So it wasn't an ADD or ADHD thing. It was just more so I just learned to at a slower pace. I was never dyslexic or anything like that. It just took me more time to process information. I think being a teacher today, I think the services today are way better than when I was in school a million years ago will say. But it just took me time to learn algebra. I wasn't the best writer, but my thing was, the thing that I always leaned back on since I was eight was always athletics. I was always, not to toot my own horn, I was always a good athlete, I was probably the best out there or one of the best out there, no matter what the sport was. I always lean back on that. I kind of realize getting through middle school, and then kind of get into high school, I kind of realized like, “yo, you can't do this”. But I just continue to kind of just learn at that slower pace. I didn't put in the time. And I always tell people, I'm like, “a kid like me probably shouldn't have really made it in a sense, but to get through college”, we could talk about those academics, but then they get to grad school and graduate with a graduate degree. If I took like what I learned and that work ethic in graduate school when I was like 26 or 27, if I can go back and smack my older me I'd probably be like a scientist or a doctor right now. Because I put in the time, but that that
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learning disability kind of hindered me so like I said I needed more of a smaller classroom environment and I needed that comfort sense. And Westfield did a good job of offering that up to me and doing that and I met some great teachers. I'll never forget and they took the time out, and I kind of realized that now as a teacher like trying to do that and give back. But like I said, I wasn't the best student, and it kind of just carried on in the college as well.
Mike: I think that's something a lot of kids, if there are any high school athletes on here, kids that are listening to this, ultimately, I think that's probably something they can relate to. When you're a really good athlete, you do tend to like lean on it, like you said, you lean back on it. You love to do it, you're good at it, and when you're in high school, a lot of times when you're not good at something, you don't want to do it. You want to do what you're good at, and you want to try to get by on that. And that only take you so far in your life. And from what I can gather, and what I know about you ultimately, it seemed like you started to understand more and more over time with your prep school experience, I would imagine through college and post college that you had to lean on, and you had to put more emphasis on learning, being a better student of whatever it was that you were doing versus just saying, “Hey, you know, I'm going to get by on athletics”.
(00:25:59) Jan: Well absolutely, I mean freshman year of college, that first semester. I mean, if anyone is listening to this, it's probably your hardest semester other than your last semester of college. And if you ever want to talk about that we can but your first
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semester so hard, because of just the workload, I mean, I won't lie to you, I had a one four GPA, by the end of my first semester. My coach was like, “Hey, you kind of got to get it together here”. And I did, and I wound up getting like a three, four or three, five, that second semester. But when you start so bad out of the gates like that, you're kind of behind the A ball. And that's what I kind of emphasize to our guys that graduated this year. And I'm like, “let me tell you something, you make sure you go to class, you're seeing you're visible, you're sitting there, you get the work done ahead of time. Do not wait till the last minute, if you need extra help go to these professors because they enjoy it. That's what they're there for. That's why they make that money at these colleges, they're there to teach and they are there to help you. If you're going to wait till the last minute, and be behind the A ball, you're going to be like me, you're struggling four years of college, keep your GPA up, because no matter what you do, if I got a one, two, and I got a four O, the rest of my time in college, average it out, it only bring me up to like a three, one, maybe a three O”, and that's what I say. I mean, start off high.
That's like my best advice to people that are starting off as freshmen with the academics because the workload is so different, and nobody's going to hold your hand. And depending on what college you go to, whether it's a big time university or a small university or a small college, you're going to have either 15 kids in your class, 30 kids in your class 60, 90, 120, you might only get five assignments, you bombe D2 of them, you fail the class, so you have stay on top of that, it's really important. And look, it was a struggle for
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me, all four years of college, like I had some really good semesters, and I had some hot mess semesters. I mean, I won't lie to you on this one, it's tough. It's a very hard transition.
Mike: Again, I think I'm lucky in that you're kind of doing my job for me in a sense that you're talking about your experience, which is exactly why we're here. What I hear there, any transition, whether it's your first semester of college, or your last semester of college, where you're transitioning out and preparing for something different, you're coming in, you have to learn how to study, you have to learn to communicate, and ask for help. Which I think to me, the more I get into this, the more I think about that transition from high school to college, I feel like that's the biggest one. Especially in high school, when we're a big fish in a small pond. And we're really good at the stuff that we do or people know who we are, people will come to us and help us because they know we need it or you go to college, you're just another number, you're a number in the system. And if you don't, or you're not able to communicate with your professors, with your coaches, with the people around you that, “I need help”, or whatever it is, you're going to get lost in the shuffle. And I didn't play sports in college. And the first semester of college was the hardest academic year of my life, I had to kill myself and learn how to study just to have a decent GPA. And I wasn't going to practice. I wasn't lifting, I wasn't watching video, it's a really hard thing to do.
(00:29:21) Jan: I think it's also difficult in a sense, Mike, and it's funny, you bring that up, I think there's high school studying, and then there's like college level studying, and it's
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just different. And then you spoke about yourself, like not being an athlete. And I think in a sense being an athlete, yeah, it's hard. But it also helps you because you have to learn time management. And I think that's the hardest thing. I mean, you have to think about this. Let's look at it in terms this, you start going to school, let's say first grade, you're seven years old, right or six years old. All right, your parents are getting you up every morning, they're driving you to school, they're picking me up. So you kind of get that all the way through. Like alright, you get older you walk to school, you get a ride with friends, or you drive. Alright, so you have the times where you have to be, now you get to college, your parents aren't there anymore, whether they're an hour away, or four hours away, or you're across the country, now you have to pick yourself up. Now you have to be disciplined enough to do those type of things. And you have to realize that in college, you don't have class every day, you might have one class once a week, it's a three hour block, you might have a class twice a week where it's an hour and a half block, or you might have a class three times a week where it's a 15 minute block.
And now every college differs on that. But for the most part, that's how the schedules work. So if you have class on Monday, and you get the assignment to do and then you're kind of like, “Alright, yeah, whatever. I'll do it later”. Then Tuesday rolls around, then Wednesday morning rolls around that assignments do, what do you do? And how do you manage that time? And I think that's where a lot of kids have a hard time because they don't know how to manage that time because, I mean, let's call a spade a spade for the most part, kids that are going to college, they kind of have things laid out for them. They
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don't have to worry about making their lunch or making their dinner and things like that, or making sure their clothes are washed. I mean, in some regards people that are listening to this, maybe they do have to do that. And I get that. But when you get to college, those are some of the factors that you have to like, take into account and on top of that, playing a sport and having study hall and workouts. I know we'll talk about that in a little bit. So there's so much that just ties into it.
Mike: So I kind of want to go back to prep school, and kind of because clearly, that was a tough, that was a tough transition for you. Like, I want to talk about that. And I want to talk about getting through that. And then then the process of going from prep school to college, like what was that like for you, what was it like to get through that year and then how did the process of recruiting and getting to Hartwick and how did that come to be?
(00:31:46) Jan: That prep year like I said, it was hard, but I met some great people, especially the dorm housing we lived in there was only like seven of us. And it turns out three or four of us were post graduates so we were doing like the same thing I was doing and then a couple other we're going there for four years. And you imagine going there for four years, but again, they call it prep school for a reason. So you'd wake up you get yourself up, you go eat, you go to class, whatever classes you had, you wouldn't have the same class every day. And then you'd have practice with football practice. You go to practice, you do what you got to do, you go eat dinner, and then you had study hall. In a
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sense, it was kind of like a college like atmosphere, but great time played on a team. We want a New England Class A championship I still have the ring today that we want to play some really, really good competition that was like some of the best football basketball competition I think I've seen in my life.
The good thing about playing with guys that are getting highly recruited, they see you and somebody knows somebody and they call whoever so I had D1 double A schools calling D2 schools calling the problem was I had to do well on these SAT’s. So now at this point, I'm doing well in the classroom. I'm getting A's and B's and a couple C's, you know, like I said, haven't been the greatest English writer in the world, so I'm getting my C pluses, B minuses there. But the problem where my SAT’s because I was just I'm a horrible test taker always had been, always will be, I don't have it, you know. So, going through that whole process schools are calling and which kind of stings the hindrances of my future lays in the balance of this test, an ACT or an SAT. Never qualified, low and behold, my friend that I told you about Kevin Ryan childhood friend, he wound up getting recruited to Hartwick. His mother called the coaches like hey, if you really like Kevin, you're going to like his childhood friend he should come up for a visit. Go for visits only on in New York for New Hampshire was like a four hour ride, you know, had to take a bus and everything. So Mind you, I'm like going all over the earth, you'd want to talk about a year of being on buses and traveling and things like that. I mean, I can tell you stories. Get up to Hartwick College, get there come to find out like the last two years, they've only won four games. And I'm like, Man, Is this the place I want to be? I don't know. But the coach Paul Culpo
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who had a real interest in me, you know, I always said that guy could sell a ketchup popsicle to someone in white gloves.
I mean, he pretty much sold me on it and I was just like, look if I don't get a scholarship I'll go here because I think for me it's always a comfortability level on something's. Now again, mind you, they only won four games, kids quit the team thrown off the team. I went up to play with them in the spring. I think we played arounD3 or four, we had seven guys run up only playing three on three because there's only six guys on the team at the time. So come to find out don't get the scholarship, it’s football or basketball. What do you want to do football or basketball? and I'm like, as good as I am at football, I like basketball better and I'm like if I'm going to play D3 at any sport, I'd rather play basketball than football. That's just my mindset. I was like I'm over getting hit and shellacked going across the middle of catching balls. High School I played quarterback prep school, I play wide receiver. I'm like I still took a pounding no matter what position it was. I’m like, call him up I'm like I I'm going to come there have to go through all the process of financial aid and FAFSA. But the prep school thing like I said very eye opening met some great people but once I left there I was just like you know what you got through this year? I think you can get through pretty much anything and mind you I told you right when I got there crying like a baby all upset don't have cable TV in my room. You know, like just the little things you take for granted, going somewhere to get a slice of pizza and food like, New Hampshire's got the worst pizza ever and that was that transition.
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Mike: But that's a great example, because that happens every year, right? You get a kid who comes from a place where maybe they come from an urban area and then they go to you know. and this happens at all levels, whether you're going to Hardwick or you're going to Lawrence, Kansas or you're going to some of these places where you're coming from a big city kid Chicago, New York and then you're going to like the middle of nowhere where everybody looks different than you. You can't walk out on the street like you know, it's like how the hell am I going to do this right and you just described it.
(00:36:23) Jan: Honestly Mike, when I got recruited, I was one of the last recruits so Mind you, our coach Paul Culpo. He made everyone come up every summer and work basketball camp, so I was such a late like just confirming thing because I was just trying to hold out because then it kind of boiled down to was like, Do I go to Hartwick, or do I go to this junior college Iowa? Do I want to go to freakin Iowa I was like, I don't know. So I was like, I'll go to Hartwick. So Mind you, I haven't met anyone. So when I first got there, all I knew was my buddy Kevin. I didn't really know much but I'm watching all these people move in the day up and people are hugging and like just normal students in the dorm I was living in, people were crying. I'm like, Yo, this is a piece of cake for me because I went through this a year ago. I know what it's like to move in. I know what it's like something as little as bringing this normal set amount of sheets because you have to change your sheets. Make sure you bring enough clothes don't bring too many clothes, because you're not doing too much. Bring in TV, bring a fridge like I went through all that I knew it was like bring snacks like my dad would set me up with like a bunch of stuff,
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snacks and everything like that. Cases of water where you're going to store stuff. So it was kind of like cake for me. So then like later that night, you get this mass text like hey, everyone's playing pickup be there such and such time. I came in with a class of 13 guys, he recruited 13 guys, by the time it was all said and done, there was only six of us left that graduated. Even my best friend Kevin, who went there, he had to leave after his freshman year. It was just different because nobody knew who I was, I didn't know who they were and I’m like for me, where I was still rough around the edges. Not personable, not really wanting to talk to anyone kind of like the big chip on my shoulder. What the hell am I doing here? Now I'm like, I got to start this crap all over again, I got to meet people again and go through all this. It was different, it really was I can't emphasize it enough. It was just strange.
Mike: I mean, clearly, there's a lot that goes with it. But if you had to put your finger on one thing, like what would you say was the biggest challenge for you in that kind of college transition, if you want to call it that?
(00:38:32) Jan: On the court or off the court?
Mike: You pick.
(00:38:34) Jan: Like I said off the court, like it was the schedule of classes. And I was getting college work done. That was a big thing. It wasn't the living thing. It wasn't being
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far from home. It was none of that because I went through that a year earlier. And I even said to myself, I'm like, look, at least you're not six hours away, now you're only three and a half hours away. So it wasn't an issue of that but it was just an issue of like I said, being a single child. I didn't have the greatest of upbringings, having a single parent, like times were tough things and I just I didn't have a lot of trust in a lot of things or people and trying to break through my shell is a hard thing. So that was hard just meeting people. So stuff like that off the court was definitely tough for me and I wasn't into the whole party scene, going out to bars because the school I went through my freshman year, there's 19 bars within a third of a mile of each other. I mean, it was insane. I used to call it like little Vegas of upstate New York. Because there was a bar, you leave one bar, you go next door, there's another bar, you leave that bar, you go next door was another bar, you go across the street, there was another bar.
So that wasn't really my scene, like from the start so I wasn't into that. But it was just meeting people because I'm so closed off that if I don't know you, I feel like I can't trust you. On the court, I mean, if you want me to answer that I can. It was just that fall preseason that first year. It was three days a week 6am Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday was the football field Wednesday was 2020s so it was 20 suicides in 20 minutes. So mind you get like a 20 second break in between and then Friday was extra work out on the track. So you have like the set workout that you'd be given like got to run a 400 and this time then you got to run another 400 then you're doing 100 then you're doing a 200. The football field it was just like running the link to the field to a yard wind sprints 100
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yard wins for 50 yarD1s for us and you go through all that. That was a tough transition so you have so mind you three days a week of that me like a dummy I had an 8:00 am class those three days. so I get done around 6:45 close to seven shower, eat something try to stay isn't like watch sports center for 10 minutes, then go to class, I'm exhausted. So you had to three days a week of that. Then you haD2 days a week of individual workouts. So you had to go to individual workouts at your specific time. So you had to work that around your schedule, whatever it was. So that was usually like Tuesday, Thursday, I got lucky doing that. I didn't have to do it on a Monday, Wednesday, because I've been like, what's the point of showering? And then you had lifting three days a week.
So that was Monday, Wednesday, Friday that you had to do so on top of working out in the morning you had weightlifting and then you had mandatory pickup I think it was either two or three days a week. So that right there that ball season me telling you that was that was torturous. I won't lie to you. It was tough. Especially those Sundays because you get those Sunday blues me and my roommate, my best college friend like dummies, we order pizza and buffalo wings and watch Sunday Night Football and then we'd be paying for it Monday. I never puked, I will say that. In four years never puked. I survived I got through that. Mind you, that's just your fall season that's I have in your regular season. So that was my on court.
Mike: Yeah, that level of effort that you put into your strength and conditioning, right?
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(00:42:19) Jan: And that's D3. And there's such a misconception out there that Oh, D3 is a bunch of scrubs or this and that the way my college coach ran it because mine he coached at St. Michael's D2, which that's a scholarship school. He worked at UMass, which was D1. So he's been around so he ran it like a D1 program. Now mind you, this was D3, you had to do all that, that's where some have to take in his perspective for some of his.
Mike: What I'm learning now is that regardless of your sport, D3 in any sport is running the same way, right? Coaches are running their programs as if winning is the number one thing it's not just oh, we go to D3 and you play like our club team. It's not like that, you know, the amount of work and effort it's put in like you're working like a D1 athlete, but you're playing at a D3 school and you're not getting a scholarship for it. So you better be prepared mentally to put that work in knowing that it's probably not going to be your profession when you when you come out the other side of it.
(00:43:21) Jan: Yeah, exactly. And, it's funny, because like some of the questions you sent me and I kind of just glanced over them and kind of touched on it and not touched on it a little bit. But I think at the end of the day, it's just about you want to do it. It's like you said right there, you're not getting a scholarship, you got to do work study. Like for me, I had to do work study to get paid every two weeks. Not that my work study was like, over the top, like, I had to just do some stuff in the basketball office. Like some of the kids that are playing D3, like they had to work in the library, they had to work in facilities and
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things like that. So they actually had to do some stuff for me, I got I kind of got lucky. I mean, what's done is done. It's not like they're going to take my eligibility or my points away from me, but I didn't really have to do all that much. Some kids have to kind of do things that are kind of over the top with work setting because you kind of need that money. And then some people choose to either take that work, study money and buy books, some people take that work, saving money and like, hey, just put it to the balance of my tuition bill or things like that. But it's hard, man, it's hard,
Mike: I mean, I think that much is clear. And I think that being prepared for that is half the battle, right? I think for a lot of kids, they just don't know what they're getting into, there's two sides of the equation, right? Even the parents, right, parents think like, once my kid has a letter of intent signed, and maybe a scholarship work is done. But then there's this whole level of preparation that's got to go into just getting ready to show up and, like be able to deal with what's in store. It’s not even close to being over at that point and I think that's something that's eye opening for a lot of people. And sometimes like anything, regardless of walk of life, or what you do, like sometimes people just have to learn the hard way, but that's not ideal, right? If you could know going into it, like what to expect or at least have a sense of what to expect and giving yourself a little bit in a way of tools, it's probably going to make it a little bit easier. So an hour has gone by like that and so I want to be conscious of time. I want to finish up kind of with your coach hat on right like you've talked a lot about your personal experiences. What it was like to transition and that all matters and that probably shapes who you are as a coach and as a person today. But
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putting your coach hat on, like what are your recommendations to parents and to athletes in the process about how to get ready for it. What should they be doing to get themselves, you know, put themselves in the best position to succeed?
(00:45:58) Jan: For the start with athletes, I think you have to put in that work, no matter what that sport is whatever specific sport it may be, just don't think because if you sign an LLI, or if you're accepted to like, go to a D3 school that, hey, it's going to be done. I mean I kind of tell high school athletes to go play college sport, you kind of lucky only 7% kind of make it of high school athletes. That’s one in 13, if my math is right, and to play D1, it's like one in 57 or something like that. So it's kind of putting the work but also, as a collective unit with a parent and a student and tie those in together, like do your research. Look up the school, look up, what majors they have, what programs they have, look up the atmosphere look up, what are the surrounding towns? Is it a crime area? Is it not a crime area, food stores, things like that? Is it accessible to get to public transportation, train, plane, whatever it may be at? Going back to the athlete part, look up the previous record of the teams in the years past? Like I always say, like, look at it from a five to eight year period, because then those are two recruiting classes right there. And it kind of tells you like, hey, does this person recruit well, does this person not recruit well?
I mean, I hate to say, because you do want some personal achievements and awards, look up any personal records and things like that, look up some things like I think as an athlete, you should always set yourself to have goals. I mean, look, when I got to Hartwick
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college, I never thought I’d 10 points away from breaking the all-time scoring record. And look, could I have broken it like that last game? Yeah. But I was more concerned about winning, because we were playing in the ECAC championship game. And I knew this was my last hurrah. So instead of getting 24 points, I got 14 points but I contributed with eight rebounds, or seven assists or whatever was there. And those are some things like, look up those goals, like all-time records, set goals for yourself, because I think as an athlete, you're always goal driven and goal oriented. you kind of want to, you know, succeed but also if you go for a visit, get to know some people ask some personal questions, don't just ask like, hey, is coach like this? I mean, obviously, you're going to ask those type of things, but be like, Hey, what do you do for fun? How are the people around here? Is it a different atmosphere? Especially today, the world we're living in.
So you know, you want to know those things and then when you get there, what I would say to you, don't be an energy vampire, you know, do whatever you got to do to be above and beyond to succeed. for parents, I tell you, no matter what support your kid 100% but, if your kids not playing or your kids not getting what they think don't automatically like I got to pull them out of school of transfer. I mean, I've seen way too many transfers in my time playing at Hartwick for four years, and then being a college coach and having friends that are college coaches. I mean, the transfer portal now is so insane because kids are leaving, some have legit arguments like hey, homesick, family illness, whatever, it may be great but some are just transferring because they're not playing. Go somewhere where you know you're going to be wanted, I think too many kids get enamored and we've
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spoken about this privately, they get enamored with the name of a school instead of who wants you. That person is showing interest in you, you gravitate towards them more because I always say Paul Culpo mean that dude we butted heads for years, but we butted heads in a good way.
I mean, that dude was a father figure for me for four years, and I still have a relationship with him today, I just talked to him last week. After I graduated, he took a job in Vermont, I go up and I see him every summer. People always ask me like, hey, do you want to go to a big school? Or hey, did you want to do this? I'm like, yeah, I did. I always wonder what it would be but the people I met and I graduated with and meeting Paul, like, I wouldn't trade that for the world. Because those lifelong friendships one, and Paul is someone I rely on ever so often for advice, and I call him. like I said, I always wonder that first time I walked in that gym, being that tough guy, being that rock not opening up to anyone to what I am now. I think it's changed like crazy but it wouldn't happen if I didn't go there. I firmly, firmly believe that. So I just tell parents, if things aren't going your way, hey, you got to stick it out and you got to figure it out. Now, if something's egregious going on, obviously, that's a whole different story. But if it's something like you're not playing, or this and, or things aren't going your way, you have to continue to work hard, and you have to continue to put your head down and stay humble.
Mike: And I love that. So something I always ask, I ask people all the time in all parts of my life, but particularly the athletes that I work with is, I always ask them, what can you
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do differently, right? Because I think there's a sense of, well, when things aren't going my way, it's somebody else's fault versus like, hey, maybe you're not doing everything you can do within your control to put yourself in a position to succeed. And I think that's really good advice because it's interesting, you know, I've done a number of these. The thing I've heard about the process of recruiting is two things. Number one is fit, fit, fit, right? Is it a fit for the kid? Is it a fit for the school? But I've also heard somebody say, and I love this is it's a 40 year decision. It's not just 4 right, it's 40. It's did I go to the right place? Do I have a role model or a mentor 15 years after I'm out of school that I can call up and ask for advice? Did I get the job that I want? Like you talked about right? Dress for the job that you want, not the one that you have, right? Like, these are all things that the four years were they're important, but it affects the next 40. And that fit? And those relationships are really what's the most important thing versus like, am I playing?
(00:51:40) Jan: Yeah. And I know we're up against the clock. I just want to say I want to add on for whoever listening to this, go to school, knowing what you want to study. Just don't say, hey, I want to study business. Like, you know Sean, we love him to death, right? He's like, I want to go for business. I had to sit down with them multiple times before practice started. Why do you want to study business? What specific areas of business? Do you want to study? Do you want to do business law? Do you want to do accounting? Do you want to do economics? Like just don't say you're going for business? And that's what I'm saying, and it's hard. Like, look, I graduated with a political science degree, I never thought in a million years, I'd be a teacher today. I'm telling you right now, I wake
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up every morning, like, I can't believe I'm a teacher, not in a bad way. But I'm like, I never set out to be a teacher, I really didn't. I always just found myself being around a sport coaching and being around kids and helping them because I remember the role models, I had coaches or teachers how they helped me, and I don't forget that. And I tried to do that but I tell kids and parents, just don't look at the school because of the name.
Now, obviously, the time schools are going to have way more majors, we get that. Look at what majors are being offered, look at what you're interested in, and then look at their graduation rate, and then look at their internship program. I never did an internship in college. Do I regret that? Yeah. But I was also like, hey, I want to be the best player in the league. Like that was also a goal of mine, as well. So it's kind of finding that balance of what you want to do but those are the things that you have to look into. Like if you want to study communications, look at the schools that offer communications, okay, and see what their transition to college to job is like. If you want to study something like a liberal arts, look at liberal arts schools, because you want to get a little bit of everything, just don't go to a school to go to a school. Yeah, that's there's too much of that, that goes on that people get enamored with names of schools, and they just don't do their research. And then they kind of realize, like, oh, they have a major that was offered me some like, and I tell these kids. I'm like, all right, so let's say you went there for two years, most of your credits, not all of them, but a chunk of them aren't going to transfer, you're probably going to have to do a fifth year of college, and you're going to have to pay more tuition. It's just like, it doesn't make sense. Again, there are always situations that things that go
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on, family illness, homesickness, something egregious that happens on campus, those are things that are out there that we read about every day. But for you, don't go somewhere just to go somewhere and then kind of realize, like, hey, this isn't the fit for me because of I'm not playing or this and that. You know, I'm under the mindset you're two years in, you're probably might have declared a major or not, you have all these credits, just think about that. If you have 70 credits, 30 of those aren't going to transfer more than likely, it's tough.
Mike: I mean, listen, something I've been hearing a lot too, in this process of talking to people about this is that athletics can help us get to where we want to go academically, right? Maybe you don't necessarily have the grades to get into a school that you would otherwise get into. But because you're an athlete, you can get into a high academic D3, or you can get into a Patriot League school, or you can get into an academy, right. I just heard a story about a kid, when you get into the Academy, you don't have to clear all the hurdles that a regular kid has to clear to get into an academy with congressional backing and all this stuff. Like if you're an athlete, you can bypass that stuff, so athletics has the power to put you in a place academically to set you up for the future. And what you're saying is you need to know that right? You need to know what you want to do where you want to go. Don't just do it without thinking through why this is a fit for you.
(00:55:20) Jan: Right, I mean, get a good sense. Like when I was in college and believe it or not, I always wanted to be in like broadcast journalism. Granted, I just told you having
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a learning disability, not being the greatest writers, being someone who's rough around the edges. But I was like, Hey, I know sports. I know things. I like talking sports and things like that, as you know, we talked about privately. but again, students have to realize that and I kind of tell people at times too, I'm like, do not rely on the guidance department at your high school or the college fair or things like that. I always tell people and I think you've heard me say this in practice. I'm like, who’s your best teacher and people were like, Oh, Mr. so and so and this and that. I'm like, No, you are your best teacher because at the end of the day, you're the one sitting there teaching yourself this stuff, we're doing the research, don't rely on the academic department at your high school, the guidance department, your guidance counselors. Because they're not thinking just about you, they have 600 other kids that they have to think about. Like a school like Westfield, there's a ton of kids in there, there might be 12, or 13. Guidance counselor's now, for all I know. they still have, let's say, 100 Kids, they have to kind of keep it moving, because they have to go to the next kid, you have to do research yourself, your parents have to do research. And if it's somewhere that's close within, I would say three hours is within driving distance.
You want to go outside of that you can drive I don't like that's a whole different story but just go visit the school. Like say if you have the resources and the funds to like take a ride down to, I don't know, let's say, Maryland College Park, or you had the funds to go to Swarthmore or Williams high academic D3 schools. Just go and visit and walk around, like look up on the website, hey, when there's there a day where I can come in? Or reach out to somebody because there are people that work at these colleges, that this is their
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job to try to get students out of school because they have to make money for tuition. So if you call up and like Hey, what's a great time to come? Or who can you connect me with? Go up? See the atmosphere, see the campus? Hey, can I go talk to somebody in the business department or the policy department? Can I pick their brain? Can I see what the academics are like, is it stringent? Is it not like those are those some of those things I did and I never happened for me because my dad didn't go to college. I was the guinea pig, I learned, if and when I have kids, I know what to look for it and to a certain
Mike: Yeah, I mean, listen, we're in the same boat. Neither of my parents went to college and I went to Michigan State I didn't visit I showed up on the doorstep and that was it. Like, you could not set it up any worse than that. And sometimes you are your own best teacher, which means you just got to figure it out on your own. When things aren't the way that they're set up to be, they can't be set up perfectly. Now we live in a world where we have podcasts about people talking about, how do we prepare for this transition, from high school to college? And I think I'll close it on this because what I what I heard you say and we’re very similar in this respect, the reason why you do what you do is because you want to help people, right? I didn't think I wanted to be a mental performance coach, this is my second career. But when I realized midway through my life is like, hey, I want to help people be better. I want to help them be in a better position to succeed maybe like I didn't and so like we have that in common. So you know, I think that's a really important thing is that you have coaches, you have parents, you have people around you as an athlete that can really help you take advantage of it.
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(00:58:53) Jan: Yeah, definitely in and like I said it don’t be afraid to make mistakes. Now don't make egregious mistakes, but don't be afraid to make mistakes it’s the old adage in life. What do you learn from? You learn from your mistakes and like that's one of the things I wrote here and we touched on a bunch of stuff, finding the balance of social life and academics and all that stuff and a sport and everything like that. But the big thing and I circled it on my sheet is like Just don't be afraid to make mistakes obviously don't make egregious mistakes that you cannot recover from. But you're going to make mistakes and you're going to learn from it just like I told you one four GPA my first semester of college huge mistake did it sink me? No, but, was I like this like the Titanic kind of sticking in the air. Yeah, I kind of was. But those are some of the things I would tell any parents or guardians listening to this. Any kid that's listening to this just do your research, look into things. I mean, the internet is so big right now you type anything in and you can find it. Oh, and by the way, you said what book? Why the best of the best by Kevin Eastman?
Mike: Why the best of the best of book recommendation?
(01:00:01) Jan: I mean, I had a bunch of other books you know me I like to read but that was my number one because I think this ties in not only for athletes, but I think for some parents because it talks about accountability. It talks about balance, it talks about having an inner circle and trusting that inner circle and it's just a lot of things we touch on having love having passion and stuff like that. All those keywords you and I always talk about,
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not being on together today doing this just all that stuff. It touches on that and it just gives you a lot of really, really good examples.
Mike: Great, ‘Why the Best of the Best.’ Okay, so we didn't get to the last semester of college, we didn't get to you playing basketball in China, we didn't get you started your coaching career. So we're going to have to do it again.
(01:00:49) Jan: Whenever you want. You let me know I'm around.
Mike: Part 2?
(01:00:53) Jan: We can do part 2, that last semester and I can give you some stories where with a thesis I had to write.
Mike: I'm looking forward to it. I really am appreciate it. This is great.
(01:01:01) Jan: Hey Mike anytime and I thank you and thanks for rescheduling and everything like that. And like I said, I really look forward to doing this again and talk about other things and I just hope somebody out there take something from this
Mike: Me too. Thanks a lot, Jon. I appreciate it.
Jan: All right, take care Mike.
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Outro
Mike Huber is the founder and owner of follow the ball coaching located in Fair Haven, New Jersey. He is a mental performance coach and business advisor dedicated to serving athletes just like you reach their full potential on and off the court. The freshmen foundation is all about helping you get to the next level. For more information, follow along on Instagram at the freshmen Foundation, please subscribe. Give us a Like on iTunes, Spotify, leave a review, tell a friend. Most importantly, come back in two weeks. Ready to get better.